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More Demolitions

More Demolitions

Old Dec 27th 2009, 2:48 pm
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The AUAN property owners association report that eight homeowners received final demolition orders from the police over Christmas in Albox, Almería.
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Old Dec 27th 2009, 5:34 pm
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Ah, well, after three days of roast dinners, two turkey and one lamb, it’s time to get back to reality and some sensible eating, and thinking.

Around eight years ago, one local English estate agent launched a massive campaign to sell new houses being built in Albox. What amazed me at the time, was the prices. The new houses in Albox, with ground, were costing less than local apartments.

We were not looking for property then, but drove down once to see what all the fuss was about. We didn’t quite get there, having taken the coastal route we came across miles of plastic-covered desert land which was so depressing that we came home.

I hope the owners get proper compensation if their houses can’t be saved. Imagine serving those orders over Christmas?
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Old Dec 27th 2009, 6:32 pm
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Default Re: More Demolitions

Originally Posted by Lenox
The AUAN property owners association report that eight homeowners received final demolition orders from the police over Christmas in Albox, Almería.
and THIS is supposed to mend bridges with the foreign community already here and restore confidence in the housing market? look,lenox,nothing will be done because they just don't get it. spain,like the rest of europe,is in the grip of one of the most savage recessions in memory and should be doing all she can to attract foreign money and investors. the way to do this is welcome foreigners,not rip them off through these stupid bloody demolitions.
you have been here long enough to know how things operate here. the endemic corruption and graft will never be seen to unless root and branch surgery is carried out at all levels of local and national government. now do you honestly think this will ever happen? me neither.
spain is a full member of the e.u. and love or hate that organisation,there are rules and regulations involved with membership and spain has to obey these or suffer sanctions. find a tough e.u. m.p. who is willing to go out on a limb and challenge these (possibly)illegal demolitions. never back down or give an inch,i truly believe if this was to happen,justice will be done and seen to be done!!!
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Old Dec 27th 2009, 9:16 pm
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Default Re: More Demolitions

I took the trouble to read up on the Albox demolitions and found that we’re not talking about eight houses here, there are hundreds in a similar position in the area, thousands if you move further south and north.

The Guardia have started to prosecute the people responsible, as in Lliber, but they are working something like six years out of date and the prosecutions of the guilty parties don’t legalise the homes affected.

It’s a typical catch 22 situation, long established Spanish laws have been broken by the building of illegal homes, eventually the crooks will be dealt with, but the homes will still be illegal and liable to demolition – they can’t be legalised either at local, regional or national level.

The national laws can’t be changed, they are necessary to protect the entire existence of the Country. We have similar laws in the UK – you couldn’t build a house in Hyde Park, but our enforcement procedures are much better.

And we don’t have a million Spanish people with pockets full of money wanting to buy houses in the UK.
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Old Dec 27th 2009, 9:39 pm
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Default Re: More Demolitions

Originally Posted by HBG
I took the trouble to read up on the Albox demolitions and found that we’re not talking about eight houses here, there are hundreds in a similar position in the area, thousands if you move further south and north.

The Guardia have started to prosecute the people responsible, as in Lliber, but they are working something like six years out of date and the prosecutions of the guilty parties don’t legalise the homes affected.

It’s a typical catch 22 situation, long established Spanish laws have been broken by the building of illegal homes, eventually the crooks will be dealt with, but the homes will still be illegal and liable to demolition – they can’t be legalised either at local, regional or national level.

The national laws can’t be changed, they are necessary to protect the entire existence of the Country. We have similar laws in the UK – you couldn’t build a house in Hyde Park, but our enforcement procedures are much better.
And we don’t have a million Spanish people with pockets full of money wanting to buy houses in the UK.
One of the reasons why we left Spain and came home. Corruption is rife across the country Why let the builders carry on and even allow people to move in before serving eviction and demolition notices. If something similar were to happen in Hyde Park (as in the example) don't you think someone would say something and stop it BEFORE it got so far as it does in Spain In all cases there is plenty of time for the buildings to be stopped before ruining peoples lives
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Old Dec 28th 2009, 9:07 am
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Default Re: More Demolitions

Originally Posted by Lionda
In all cases there is plenty of time for the buildings to be stopped before ruining peoples lives
Yes, but you have to wait long enough for the max number of people, builders, politicians,electricians etc, to get their grubby little corrupt fingers in the pie first. If these house were banned, as they should be, before they were built, none of these people would get their ill gotten gains. Spain will struggle to ever rid itself of it's deserved banana republic status. It's corrupt from the bottom to the very top.
they are necessary to protect the entire existence of the Country.
You're having a laugh, ain't you?
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Old Dec 28th 2009, 10:03 am
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Originally Posted by agoreira
Yes, but you have to wait long enough for the max number of people, builders, politicians,electricians etc, to get their grubby little corrupt fingers in the pie first. If these house were banned, as they should be, before they were built, none of these people would get their ill gotten gains. Spain will struggle to ever rid itself of it's deserved banana republic status. It's corrupt from the bottom to the very top.

You're having a laugh, ain't you?
I don’t agree with your analysis that Spain is more corrupt than anywhere else, it’s just that the opportunities for it were unprecedented over the past ten years, or more. It’s no different to the expenses scandal in the UK, we can all be corrupt if the opportunities are all around us.

The majority of honest people in Spain know what’s happened and want to change things, and deep down they probably put some blame on the million ‘Ricos’ who have despoiled their beautiful country.

I’m convinced that they don’t want another million Ricos coming over to continue the process, and if a few hundred, well-publicised demolitions stop them, they can get their country back.

I’ve got a small flat back in east London, which was a pleasant place to live 50 years ago. Just like in the expat areas of Spain, the place is now crawling with foreigners, and I don’t want to go back there. Who’s to blame? Well, in a democracy, it’s all of us, ain’t it?
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Old Dec 28th 2009, 10:08 am
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Originally Posted by HBG
Well, in a democracy, it’s all of us, ain’t it?
Are you suggesting we should get off our rrsus and vote??
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Old Dec 28th 2009, 10:29 am
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Who’s to blame? Well, in a democracy, it’s all of us, ain’t it?
Good point HBG, and it's not just talking about the voting process. We've allowed UK city centres at night to become a competition for how badly-behaved, drunken or violent young people can be. The problem is though, what can an individual really do? The average Spaniard couldn't stop the property developers (and the associated corruption) buying up the coastal land and building wherever they could. The average Brit couldn't stop the pub chains buying up the city centre pubs and converting them to disco-bars and cheap boozing joints. End of the day it's the governing bodies (both national and local) who are to blame.
There are illegal houses that have been ordered to be destroyed in Madrid and on the northern coast - but on a far smaller scale, and affecting few (if any) Brits.
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Old Dec 28th 2009, 10:34 am
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The majority of honest people in Spain know what’s happened and want to change things, and deep down they probably put some blame on the million ‘Ricos’ who have despoiled their beautiful country.
The bits I've seen of Asturias, Cantabria and even parts of the Basque Country are still incredibly beautiful, despite a large number of new housing developments (ok, some of the industrial bits aren't, but they never were). Building restrictions seem to have been far better enforced in the north, and I don't think it's just because the Brits didn't go there. Can anyone here explain why? Perhaps it's because the big travel and property corporations weren't able to inflict their power there?
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Old Dec 28th 2009, 10:36 am
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Default Re: More Demolitions

Originally Posted by HBG
I don’t agree with your analysis that Spain is more corrupt than anywhere else, it’s just that the opportunities for it were unprecedented over the past ten years, or more. It’s no different to the expenses scandal in the UK, we can all be corrupt if the opportunities are all around us.

The majority of honest people in Spain know what’s happened and want to change things, and deep down they probably put some blame on the million ‘Ricos’ who have despoiled their beautiful country.

I’m convinced that they don’t want another million Ricos coming over to continue the process, and if a few hundred, well-publicised demolitions stop them, they can get their country back.

I’ve got a small flat back in east London, which was a pleasant place to live 50 years ago. Just like in the expat areas of Spain, the place is now crawling with foreigners, and I don’t want to go back there. Who’s to blame? Well, in a democracy, it’s all of us, ain’t it?

You make a couple of assumptions here that I dont agree with...

1. The Spanish people I know dont view the Northern Europeans who live on the Costas as rich. Quite the opposite as they see the places they eat and the ghettos they live in Of course some are rich
2. Noone I know blames the Northern Europeans, they blame the ayuntamientos of those regions where building is out of control, they are the ones making a packet. The foreigners are just buying what is available

Thanks for putting the other view across which we dont hear much at times though. Like you, I dont think Spain is corrupt throughout the country, it is corrupt at the local goverment (ayuntamiento) level because these small guys who are often just "normal villagers" dont need a lot of votes to get in, have a huge amount of power and potential to get themselves and their friends very rich.

IMO what is needed is close auditing of the ayuntamientos at a national level i.e. to have 1 company contracted to audit all ayuntamiento spending across Spain. Then if abuses are found, that company gets sacked. That will tighten up everything in one swoop.
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Old Dec 28th 2009, 10:46 am
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Default Re: More Demolitions

Originally Posted by steviedeluxe
The bits I've seen of Asturias, Cantabria and even parts of the Basque Country are still incredibly beautiful, despite a large number of new housing developments (ok, some of the industrial bits aren't, but they never were). Building restrictions seem to have been far better enforced in the north, and I don't think it's just because the Brits didn't go there. Can anyone here explain why? Perhaps it's because the big travel and property corporations weren't able to inflict their power there?
Its probably because the North has a tradition of property small holdings. This means families own small plots of land of between 500 to 5,000m2 (and often jointly held by a lot of family members). The authorities will only let you build one or two houses on this and you will see a lot of the countryside in Asturias being developed in this way. The good thing is that is still has the appearance of countryside as the gardens are big and often have goats, chickens, cows, vegetable patches etc.

Plus foreigners don't wont to live in Asturias, it is beautiful, but it rains a lot!

In Andalucia, the landowners owned much more, meaning they can build great complexes on the land of one particular family

Also, as any Northern Spaniard will tell you, the Southeners are a bit backwards, being closer to Africa and all
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Old Dec 28th 2009, 11:24 am
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Default Re: More Demolitions

Originally Posted by Fredbargate
Are you suggesting we should get off our rrsus and vote??
Believe it or not, that could cause even more problems. Not far from where I live, local English politicians hold the balance of power at the town hall and it’s led to some weird things.

The local police are using retired English policemen to patrol with them, especially at roadblocks. It makes Spanish people hopping mad, and it would me if I was stopped by Trafico on the Southend Road.

And what is the most-read expat newspaper? The Daily Mail, Need I say any more?
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Old Dec 28th 2009, 11:28 am
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Originally Posted by cricketman
Also, as any Northern Spaniard will tell you, the Southeners are a bit backwards, being closer to Africa and all
I go along with Alexandra Dumas, "Africa begins at the pyrenees"
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Old Dec 28th 2009, 11:33 am
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Default Re: More Demolitions

Originally Posted by HBG
I don’t agree with your analysis that Spain is more corrupt than anywhere else
If you seriously believe that Spain is no more corrupt than UK, this is about the right time of year for you, I bet you still believe in Father Christmas!
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