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Re: New person needs some help and advise!!
Originally Posted by Fortaleza
(Post 7735714)
Point missed totally.
Please re-read (or for the first time) what went before. It is not open to interpretation. It is not an argument to side with. The word is pejorative. That cannot be argued. It's a bit like arguing if the sea is wet. But then the word Wanker is pejorative, and many times I've called friends of mine (and vice versa) this word. This, as you say is using it in a friendly spirit. Yet you can't deny - and this is the whole bloody point - that it stems from a pejorative. Many Spaniards, and clearly expats, don't get this and use Guiri willy-nilly. Which means, you could find yourself in a situation where people you've never met before, apparently friendly enough are using this word to refer to you - including calling you by it - and just because your friends use it with you in a nice way, you automatically assume these new people are also using it nicely when in fact they are insulting you. With a word like wanker, which we know to be insulting, if your mates down the pub call you it, no problem, but if a total stranger came up and said it to you, you'd be annoyed and rightly so - because you don't need intonation to know the stranger just insulted you JLFS |
Re: New person needs some help and advise!!
Originally Posted by steviedeluxe
(Post 7735569)
Well, I've been told that chaval can be a bit demeaning. But chulo definitely has different meanings depending on context - especially in big cities. Perhaps someone here who's Spanish can expand...
Rapaz or rapaza is the same. Regards, JLFS |
Re: The meaning of the word Guiri
Many words change their meaning over the passage of time, and the original meaning becomes redundant. 'Gay' being an obvious example. Vulgar used to mean 'popular', manufacture used to mean 'made by hand' and not by machine, awful used to mean 'full of awe'. But these original meanings mean nothing today.
I think the origin of the word Guiri is irrelevant now. The word can be used both as an insult or affectionately and I'm sure someone with half a brain would be able to tell the difference between the two. If someone calls me a puta guiri, I understand they don't like me. On the other hand if they call me La Guirizana, it's meant to be affectionate. From the DRAE: guiri.(Acort. del vasco guiristino, cristino).1. m. coloq. Ál. tojo (ǁ planta papilionácea). 2. com. Nombre con que, durante las guerras civiles del siglo XIX, designaban los carlistas a los partidarios de la reina Cristina, y después a todos los liberales, y en especial a los soldados del gobierno. 3. com. coloq. Turista extranjero. La costa está llena de guiris. 4. com. coloq. Miembro de la Guardia Civil. There's loads of very funny articles on the net about how the Spanish view the 'guiris'....in fact in my quick google search I found several humorous articles but none that were just plain insulting. Here's an example: (in spanish of course). http://inciclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Guiri Don't know if I can get away with posting the article but I'll have a try: * Suelen comprar sombreros mexicanos en las tiendas de souvenirs, producto típico español por excelencia. * Frecuentemente calzan sandalias con calcetines, para gran alborozo de los nativos. * Portan cámaras caras, para gran alborozo de los quinquis. * Al menor contacto con el sol, adquieren lo que se conoce como moreno centollo. * Acompañan el cocido con Coca Cola. * Cuando visitan un restaurante,todos sus aparatos tecnologicos avanzados encima de la mesita (movil,camara,mp3 y demas objetos desconocidos para un español)para llamar la atencion de los niños gitanillos de 8 años que pasan por la plaza * Si sufren un robo de los gitanillos, se quejan al ayuntamiento y reciben una indemnización doble, para comprarse más aparatos tecnológicos, seguir poniéndolos en la mesa y sufrir otro hurto para volver a recibir una indemnización y así hasta el infinito (y más allá...) * Cuando visitan un lugar público somos los demás los que tenemos que hablar su idioma (si hablamos en español van al ayuntamiento a ganar su correspondida paga) y cuando somos los españoles los que van a guirilandia hay que hablar por los cojones de Cristo en su idioma. ¿UN POCO APAÑAITOS, NO? * Se quejan de todo,cualquier cosa absurda: Oh my god the bitch is man! Ou nou señouwrita mi bed nou mide fourty metres cuadrupedos multiplicadous pour zerty centimetres sopeaso de bitch * Otra de sus peculiaridades es creer que los cimientos de nuestros edificios estan construidos con aceitunitas y tortillitas como hormigón armado, incluso pueden creer que durante nuestra vida diaria vamos vestidos de traje de luces y vestidos de puntitos blancos, revestidos de un tono magenta que recuerda al de la feria de Perpiñan y que habra unas 45 plazas de toros en cada ciudad (ojala no hubiese ninguna, amigos) * Fotografian todo y se sorprenden de todo (frase típica: "Oh un farolillo!!"), incluso ven cosas que tu no habias visto pasando todos los dias por ahí. |
Re: New person needs some help and advise!!
Originally Posted by Fortaleza
(Post 7735347)
Much in the way we thought it was fine to say Wog .
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Re: The meaning of the word Guiri
It means 'foreign ar**hole'. So I agree with Fortaleza. Yes, it depends on its usage and intention, but it's an insult.
It would be much odder if there wasn't a handy word to describe... white (or pink) camera toting tourists - or - foreign residents in shorts gabbing away in English - or - (fill in here your own favourite cliché). |
Re: The meaning of the word Guiri
Originally Posted by Veleta
(Post 7735838)
Many words change their meaning over the passage of time, and the original meaning becomes redundant. 'Gay' being an obvious example. Vulgar used to mean 'popular', manufacture used to mean 'made by hand' and not by machine, awful used to mean 'full of awe'. But these original meanings mean nothing today.
I think the origin of the word Guiri is irrelevant now. The word can be used both as an insult or affectionately and I'm sure someone with half a brain would be able to tell the difference between the two. If someone calls me a puta guiri, I understand they don't like me. On the other hand if they call me La Guirizana, it's meant to be affectionate. As to the many other words that applies to (in English - I wouldn't presume to do so for Spanish), don't ask my poor memory to come up with them, but there are loads which are rarely used but that definitely does not mean their original use is now either irrelevant or redundant. It just requires, as Fortaleza was explaining, that you use the word with half a mind on what it either used to mean, or now means. |
Re: The meaning of the word Guiri
I asked my Spanish friends last night and they all said it wasnt insulting though it can be used in an insulting way. As with all language, if the person who uses the word does not mean it as an insult, and the person who receives it doesnt either...then what is the problem!
Maybe Lenox and Forteleza should wear a t-short "No me llames guiri" or something. So Spanish people can be made aware of their delicate nature |
Re: The meaning of the word Guiri
Originally Posted by cricketman
(Post 7736474)
I asked my Spanish friends last night and they all said it wasnt insulting though it can be used in an insulting way. As with all language, if the person who uses the word does not mean it as an insult, and the person who receives it doesnt either...then what is the problem!
Maybe Lenox and Forteleza should wear a t-short "No me llames guiri" or something. So Spanish people can be made aware of their delicate nature I think we're at risk of going round in ever decreasing circles til we end up disappearing up our own misconceptions. I don't think Fortaleza or Lenox were displaying a delicate nature, merely highlighting for anyone who didn't know, or hadn't thought much about it, that the word guiri has various connotations. If I understand correctly, and I think (hope!) I do, it's as follows: guiri: explanatory (historical derogatory meaning) guiri: derogatory (early/usually accepted original meaning) guiri: light-hearted derogatory (as used between friends, eg calling a mate wanker) guiri: generic, not really derogatory but capable of derogatory interpretation (taff, yank, etc) So: as long as anyone hearing the word has (if relevant) heard the whole conversation, context and understands not only the relationship between those speaking but - more importantly - is aware of the possible relevance of the original meaning, no-one's going to misunderstand or be misunderstood. |
Re: The meaning of the word Guiri
good explanation :cool:
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Re: The meaning of the word Guiri
In my experience, and in the experience of family and friends, Guiri although in some cases is used in a joking manner, is an insult. Similar to black kids calling each other the n word (one of the ugliest words in existence) is used as a term of familiarity, but if used by another race is deemed an insult of an epic scale. I would never be happy to be called a guiri, i dont think it is remotely funny, and will always see it as an insult.
I was under the impression that chulo was meant as cheeky as in, que no seas chulo... sure that doesnt mean, dont be a pimp...! Chaval, never imagined this could be used as an insult, always thought of this as lad or chap or something like that... |
Re: The meaning of the word Guiri
Originally Posted by cricketman
(Post 7736474)
As with all language, if the person who uses the word does not mean it as an insult, and the person who receives it doesnt either...then what is the problem!
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Re: The meaning of the word Guiri
Never in my life, I had listened the word " guiri ". I listened this word the first time in Córdoba, when I made the military service. And it can mean this, its origin is not necessarily an insult, a word that has its origin in the Carlist wars, and making reference to a word difficult of to understand (I don't know how will be " paki " in UK or " sudlander " in Germany):
http://www.muyinteresante.es/index.p...-palabra-guiri
Originally Posted by Fortaleza
(Post 7735280)
The difference among Spanish who don't understand its meaning is that they don't understand that its origins are also from an insult that we may CHOOSE to use in a friendly way. These people assume it is friendly and legitimate from the start. It is not their fault, it has just never been explained
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Re: The meaning of the word Guiri
Originally Posted by hitchw
(Post 7736699)
In my experience, and in the experience of family and friends, Guiri although in some cases is used in a joking manner, is an insult. Similar to black kids calling each other the n word (one of the ugliest words in existence) is used as a term of familiarity, but if used by another race is deemed an insult of an epic scale. I would never be happy to be called a guiri, i dont think it is remotely funny, and will always see it as an insult.
I was under the impression that chulo was meant as cheeky as in, que no seas chulo... sure that doesnt mean, dont be a pimp...! Chaval, never imagined this could be used as an insult, always thought of this as lad or chap or something like that... Chulo as an adjective can mean lots of different things, but chulo the noun is pimp. Lots of words have more than one meaning, like chulo, etc. regards, JLFS |
Re: The meaning of the word Guiri
Originally Posted by Relampago
(Post 7737218)
Never in my life, I had listened the word " guiri ". I listened this word the first time in Córdoba, when I made the military service. And it can mean this, its origin is not necessarily an insult, a word that has its origin in the Carlist wars, and making reference to a word difficult of to understand (I don't know how will be " paki " in UK or " sudlander " in Germany):
http://www.muyinteresante.es/index.p...-palabra-guiri I have not understood this part of your comment a lot. You explain this to me |
Re: The meaning of the word Guiri
Originally Posted by me me
(Post 7737224)
chaval means lad, not an insult at all.
Chulo as an adjective can mean lots of different things, but chulo the noun is pimp. Lots of words have more than one meaning, like chulo, etc. regards, JLFS 1) Something attractiveness, beautiful, superb, with charisma 2) Boastful 3) The man that " protects " and live of the prostitutes |
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