Hi, Im new to this forum. Im looking for a property to buy in Murcia, Almeria or Valencia inland areas. I would like to rent it out to holiday makers initially to cover the mortgage, and when my kids finish school in a few years, probably move there. Problem is Im REALLY confused by the power situation. I found a great villa in urb Las Mallaes near Pedralba on the net. The mains electricity has been disconnected and in the first communication the agency said it would cost 3,000 euros to have it re connected, even though the supply is only a few meters away at the gate. I thought they had accidentaly added an extra zero and questioned them. Now they say its really difficult to reconnect mains in Spain and would cost 7-8,000 euros and it would be better to get 6 solar panels at 150 each, 12 batteries, invertor and regulator 6,000-8,000 euros and a back up generator at 500 euros. Does this sound right to you?
If any of you have experience of solar power I would love to hear your views, especially if youre renting out holiday homes. Does the generator come on automatically or does someone have to go out to switch it on. I can imagine this being a problem for some holiday makers.
I also keep reading about land grab issues and people being asked to pay for roads to be tarmacced and street lighting, but I think I need to open a new thread for that.
Thanks in advance for any advice!

Hola

Sounds like "bargepole" time - a decent solar system is a minimum of 20,000€ and beyond most people that rent houses.

Davexf

As Concierge for the Spanish section of BE I would like to say hello and welcome.

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Please let me know if you need any further help.

Rosemary

There should be no issue getting mains if property is legal.

Friend of mine lives in an illegal property and has difficulty getting mains supply. He spent 25,000€ on a system and it is bearly adequate. He has to wait until the sun is up to heat water. He cannot use any other appliance if he uses the electric cooker.

If a great property seems very cheap, there is usually a reason. I would look elsewhere.

First, it's worth pointing out that paying guests don't take kindly to restrictions in power use. So, whatever you do, it should provide ample power, and shouldn't ever fail on them.

Connecting to Mains: Your quote sounds cheap. We're aware of quotes of up to €80 grand to connect to basic mains power just 100 meters away. That assumes you'll have no problem legalising the property and electrical installation. The bureaucracy alone can sometimes take years.

Alternative power: Better check the status of Spain's laws du jour as there is more talk of taxing self-generated energy to death along with draconian enforcement and requiring excess energy to be given away to power companies, but we are also considering the same, and have done a bit of research, although not as thoroughly as I'd prefer in order to draw a concrete conclusion. Nonetheless we've arrived at what we feel is a reasonable strategy to get off the grid over time.

From our POV, Spain's energy sector has just too much political influence, and we anticipate energy prices to rise significantly in the next decade, and if not, then the energy companies will step-up subsidies for those poor €5billion-profit-per-year energy companies, which only means taxes will rise again to pay for it. All this talk of penalising self-generated energy is no doubt at least partly influenced by the energy companies.

So, we've been considering a strategy to get off the grid, starting with a generator that runs on diesel or propane, a decent invertor, and batteries. The generator runs until batteries are charged, then automatically shuts off. When battery charge drops below a certain point or the current demand goes over a certain level, the generator starts again automatically. There are plenty of generators on the market that have this remote start capability.

This is perhaps the least risky initial investment, since it can be started with a propane/diesel generator, a decent inverter, and an array of batteries - well under €5000, more likely under €3000 - and living in the campo, it's pretty hard for authorities to discover you're doing this.

Considering standing charges and other non-consumption related costs of using mains power, we've calculated that the price/kw of generating sufficient power with this method is about the same or only slightly higher than paying for it from Endesa, although admittedly a lot less convenient, since you have to give it fuel regularly.

As we find out more about how Spain's energy legislation will play out, and can be assured that we won't be hauled off to jail if we visibly exhibit solar panels, then it's relatively easy to incrementally add solar panels and batteries (as money permits) to incrementally decrease reliance on gas or mains over time. Eventually, we'd hope to be be able to add enough solar panels to sustain all our needs without mains or fossil fuels, provided the law permits it without paying them a fortune (or going to jail).

Anyway, that's what we've loosely planned as a long-term, incremental strategy to get "off the grid", which, considering the increasing greed of both government and their amigos at the energy companies, we believe is probably the wisest thing to do for long term

Yes agree with some other posts, sounds like the property may be an illegal build, hence no power supply connected, we have friends in Murcia who have the same problem. They have spent 15,000 Euros on a solar power system, but it still isn't capable of sustaining the power, so they are looking to raise another 5,000 euros to upgrade.

Perhaps spend a few 100 Euros on a solicitor to check the property out and if you have any doubts, look elsewhere.

Best of luck.

You can spend as much or as little as you like when it comes to living off-grid.
You can spend a couple of thousand and self-install or you can get the pros in and spend 20 thousand.
What you have to realise is that your entire house runs off batteries.
It doesn't matter how many panels or what capacity generator you have, you are still running off batteries, and the more batteries you have, the longer your power will last.

Missile's post above about his friend using an electric cooker is worth noting. You just can't realistically use high power appliances when your house runs on batteries.
Use a gas cooker (obviously!). Use a gas fridge, gas hot water heater, energy efficient lighting, put those hair-straighteners back in the box, change your 3kw iron for a 1kw model.
There's so much you can do to reduce your power consumption.

Living off-grid is an experience. You find you are constantly challenging yourself to be even more frugal with the energy you consume. You are consistently monitoring the power levels.
It ends up becoming an obsession. You start building solar ovens for roasting food, solar convection heaters out of old beer cans, you lay long lengths of black water pipe all over the ground in order to capture a bit of heat from the sun. You fantasize over ground-source heat pumps and the potential for eco-underfloor heating systems. It's truly satisfying and you get a real buzz everytime your friends whinge about their latest electricity bill.

Unfortunately, as Amideislas said, most paying guests don't want the hassle. They want the tv on all the time, air-con in the summer, the pool pump running 24/7.
Off-grid power generation requires monitoring and maintaining, and paying guests are usually on holiday.
Solar panels last forever, generators are cheap to buy, in fact the cheapest ones are almost disposable. Batteries, the most important and expensive component, need replacing every ten years (if you're lucky).

I've done it, been there, got the T-shirt. Now years later I've got mains and a big electric bill every two months. I don't romantasize about living off-grid any more. It was fun while it lasted, but not having to worry about whether there's enough power for the kids to make another bowl of microwave popcorn is just one less thing to worry about.

If I lived on my own I would go solar at the first opportunity, but my family comes first.

Good post Bill, rental will not want to change gas bottles, so you will need to make some arrangement for a yocal agent to service your rental.

The ONLY person who will profit from your rental is the agent.

Yes, we are well aware of the excessive "maintenance" of living off-grid. We're already perhaps more electrically frugal than others, using gas appliances wherever possible. Plus, we don't have a guest let or kids to worry about.

But we're also intending to use a combination of both battery and mains (if the law allows us, and maybe even if not), which should help us to adopt the minimum mains tarif. For those with anything above the "poverty" tarif, the ever-increasing standing charges alone are pretty questionable. Especially considering the profits these companies are enjoying.

If the price of energy eventually soars due to energy supplier lobbying (and the fact that the govt can't sustain the subsidy while the energy companies' profits continue to soar), we will always be able to get off the grid, which is a luxury most people won't have. I reckon we could face legal challenges or even jail for not being "good lemmings", but we'll cross the bridge when we come to it.

After reading all the possible expenses involved, and the question of if the property is even legal, I think it would be better to walk away.

The problems could take years to resolve, so there will be no rental income anyway.

A house in the country will be more difficult to rent. I would suggest you forget renting, IMHO you are unlikely to cover your costs.

Oh well done! I want to emulate you guys! I am looking to implement a hybrid system with some battery back-up. I just shipped of my panels to Portugal today! But the freight company wouldn't take my batteries. So I still need to get that sorted out. After seeing what the Government in Spain have done I won't bother signing up to the FiT scheme. I plan to just feed a bit into the grid to stem the bleed and use the rest that I generate as off-grid. Re: the origanal poster - I think that property might have some deeper issues than just getting it connected to the electricity grid..

The costs quoted for the panels and battery's seam cheap and you won't get much of a generator for €500 If your leaving the house unattended for long periods you also run the risk of having the equipment stolen, it's quite a big cherry to dangle to would be burglars as the gear is worth a lot of money, worth keeping in mind

My friend with solar panels previously had a large generator which often broke down. He was offered a cheap replacement. Two weeks after installation, he had a visit from the Police - it had been stolen.
He now has a new Honda generator which he uses to top up his solar system. It is much smaller, cheaper to buy and run.

Depending on where it is, I'd disagree with that as a "blanket" statement.

We have a large tourist trade here, and I can tell you with absolute certainty that tourist lets in the country are often booked solid for the entire season, and the prices paid aren't paltry.

Have a look at listings in your area on airbnb or 9flats or housetrip or ownersdirect. That may tell you a lot about your chances as a holiday let.