looking to move
May 28th 2018, 3:22 pm
#1
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looking to move
Hi
Myself and my wife are looking to move to spain or canary islands. Initially we would like to buy somewhere with a view to renting out during the year and move permanently in 10 years. Am i best looking at tourist parts or more rural. I can speak enough spanish to get by and wouldnt be looking to work there.
Myself and my wife are looking to move to spain or canary islands. Initially we would like to buy somewhere with a view to renting out during the year and move permanently in 10 years. Am i best looking at tourist parts or more rural. I can speak enough spanish to get by and wouldnt be looking to work there.
May 28th 2018, 4:51 pm
#2
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Re: looking to move
Hi and a warm welcome to the Spanish forum on BE. Myself and Fred James are the moderators for the Spanish forums whilst myself and BEVS moderate Europe. Please read the Site Rules Site Rules British Expatriate Community adhere to them so that the site runs smoothly. Moderators are there to ensure that the rules of BE are maintained. This is so that members gain the information that they are looking for and find their experiences on the forums to be friendly and worthwhile.
Problems and complaints should always be addressed to a moderator who will look into the matter and deal with it efficiently and fairly. Our members who post in the Spain Forums are usually friendly and helpful with a wealth of knowledge about the issues of living in Spain. I hope that you enjoy your time participating in the forums.
Please let me know if you need any further help.
Rosemary
Problems and complaints should always be addressed to a moderator who will look into the matter and deal with it efficiently and fairly. Our members who post in the Spain Forums are usually friendly and helpful with a wealth of knowledge about the issues of living in Spain. I hope that you enjoy your time participating in the forums.
Please let me know if you need any further help.
Rosemary
May 28th 2018, 6:56 pm
#3
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 264
Re: looking to move
You might as well be asking:- How long is a piece of string? I would guess that most people who purchase property on the Costas want to rent it out at some stage or another. You do. So do I. I purchased a 2 bedroom apartment in Mojacar Playa thirteen years ago. It was great when we started our adventure. Gung-Ho and nothing would stop us. We got burnt along the way someway or another. If I had the thirteen years back would I purchase (bearing in mind all the experiences)? No way. You can rent in the off season in the driest and warmest part of Spain for around €600 per month. No worries about residentia, tax, maintenance, advertising, some tenants, breakages, customer service, damage, costs for replacing, etc etc.
Think carefully. If you buy you are shelling out a vast amount of money from your savings or paying a mortgage. Now, you may be loaded; then that's a different story. Suss out everything from where you want to buy to the hassle of acquiring good tenants.
Ten years time is a long way off. You may have more options then e.g. renting out your UK property and renting in Spain simultaneously and being well ahead in the rent game.
Think carefully. If you buy you are shelling out a vast amount of money from your savings or paying a mortgage. Now, you may be loaded; then that's a different story. Suss out everything from where you want to buy to the hassle of acquiring good tenants.
Ten years time is a long way off. You may have more options then e.g. renting out your UK property and renting in Spain simultaneously and being well ahead in the rent game.
May 28th 2018, 7:38 pm
#4
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Re: looking to move
Wise words Leper. I suppose that to anyone who hasnt had any experience of owning and letting a place in another country, it sounds ideal to buy now, hoping that prices will move up , in this case, over 10 years, and in the meantime get a nice rental income. In practice, as you have well mentioned, it’s not so easy, and there are many pitfalls on the way. I confirm 100% what Leper says.
May 28th 2018, 10:16 pm
#5
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Joined: Mar 2018
Location: Gandia
Posts: 201
Re: looking to move
If I had the thirteen years back would I purchase (bearing in mind all the experiences)? No way. You can rent in the off season in the driest and warmest part of Spain for around €600 per month. No worries about residentia, tax, maintenance, advertising, some tenants, breakages, customer service, damage, costs for replacing, etc etc.
Think carefully. If you buy you are shelling out a vast amount of money from your savings or paying a mortgage. Now, you may be loaded; then that's a different story. Suss out everything from where you want to buy to the hassle of acquiring good tenants.
Ten years time is a long way off. You may have more options then e.g. renting out your UK property and renting in Spain simultaneously and being well ahead in the rent game.
Think carefully. If you buy you are shelling out a vast amount of money from your savings or paying a mortgage. Now, you may be loaded; then that's a different story. Suss out everything from where you want to buy to the hassle of acquiring good tenants.
Ten years time is a long way off. You may have more options then e.g. renting out your UK property and renting in Spain simultaneously and being well ahead in the rent game.
A landlord in Spain (Italy is worse to be fair) has few legal assurances and the legal system being what it is, it can take 5 years to get a non paying tenant out of your property!
I wouldn't want to invest money here like that, to be a long term landlord. You are better off doing that in the UK! Also prices may be low here compared to the UK, but so are rents.
Now if you want to buy a place, use it as a holiday home and rent it out in the holiday sesson on AirBnB, that is a different matter.
You can get in a week on a short term holiday let, what you might see in 3 months on a long term rental
Rural is a problem if you are not going to live there basically... As there is the security aspect of a lock up and leave in a rural setting and it doesn't lend itself to any kind of rental > ie middle of nowhere and more than 20mins from the beach.
If you are buying a holiday home, that you may later live in permanently - that you wish to rent out in the peak session - In view of the on going holiday rental restrictions, your going to want a house/villa (not an apartment) 3 bedrooms and a pool, not far from the beach, say 15 to 20mins drive max - is the sweat spot.
In Gran Canaria you can extend the AirBnB holiday session, but you will want something close to the beach and not far from life.
12-13 years ago was the height of the market boom here and outside of Madrid, Barcelona/Sitges, Marbella prices haven't recovered and in many places there are still great buys.
You should be able to find a nice place that you can use as a holiday home and get a couple of months good holiday rental on, but long term rental is not the way to go here.
Just be aware that a property inland away from the coast, doesn't lend itself to holiday rentals, unless it is an area of outstanding beauty. Rural houses also can take years to sell on.
Last edited by Smithy73; May 28th 2018 at 10:39 pm.
May 29th 2018, 7:47 am
#6
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Re: looking to move
A landlord in Spain (Italy is worse to be fair) has few legal assurances and the legal system being what it is, it can take 5 years to get a non paying tenant out of your property!
I wouldn't want to invest money here like that, to be a long term landlord. You are better off doing that in the UK! Also prices may be low here compared to the UK, but so are rents.
Now if you want to buy a place, use it as a holiday home and rent it out in the holiday sesson on AirBnB, that is a different matter.
You can get in a week on a short term holiday let, what you might see in 3 months on a long term rental
Rural is a problem if you are not going to live there basically... As there is the security aspect of a lock up and leave in a rural setting and it doesn't lend itself to any kind of rental > ie middle of nowhere and more than 20mins from the beach.
If you are buying a holiday home, that you may later live in permanently - that you wish to rent out in the peak session - In view of the on going holiday rental restrictions, your going to want a house/villa (not an apartment) 3 bedrooms and a pool, not far from the beach, say 15 to 20mins drive max - is the sweat spot.
In Gran Canaria you can extend the AirBnB holiday session, but you will want something close to the beach and not far from life.
12-13 years ago was the height of the market boom here and outside of Madrid, Barcelona/Sitges, Marbella prices haven't recovered and in many places there are still great buys.
You should be able to find a nice place that you can use as a holiday home and get a couple of months good holiday rental on, but long term rental is not the way to go here.
Just be aware that a property inland away from the coast, doesn't lend itself to holiday rentals, unless it is an area of outstanding beauty. Rural houses also can take years to sell on.
This all started out with a trip to Caleta de Fuste, we loved the place and started to explore property prices there. we would like a holiday home that we can rent out during the year with a view to moving permanently when we retire.
May 29th 2018, 11:02 am
#7
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Joined: Mar 2018
Location: Gandia
Posts: 201
Re: looking to move
So I had a quick look on Kyero and then on AirBnB and offer the following observations.
Property prices are kept reasonable high due to a small popular island i guess. Outside of the main tourist areas of Barcelona to Sitges/Marbella to Malage/Benidorm to Denia you can find beautiful areas and properties with very reasonable prices.
The other thing that I noticed - On Airbnb there were around 278 holiday rentals (self contained ie not rooms) in that tiny little area that you mention (Caleta de Fuste). So there is an awful lot of competition and prices are very low compared to purchase prices. I found that I could rent a 3 bedroom villa for €45 a night.
Although the holiday session is different there from the rest of Spain and a lot of the places were rented out a lot throughout the year.. But that's a lot of "foot fall" for not so much money.
We are in the Valencia area, south of Valencia City. You can purchase a beautiful 3 bedroom villa here for something in the region of €200-230k. You need something no more than 20mins drive to the beach, on land classed as Urbano (Urbanised - this is important for the tourist license) and should be looking at a 5-6% return for the 10 week holiday period (end of June to the 2nd week of September) to begin with.
I would be looking for €100-135 a night and less people staying (less wear on your home)
If you have a bigger budget, than the area around Altea to Denia is beautiful and offers a return to match.
Be cautious of buying apartments, as you may find in the near future that you are unable to get a tourist license (thus rent it out for short term holiday lets) on an apartment in the area you choose.
Last edited by Smithy73; May 29th 2018 at 11:12 am.
May 29th 2018, 11:39 am
#8
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Re: looking to move
OK so what you say is certainly possible. Prices are lower than they were 10 years ago generally across Spain and short term holiday lets are reasonably safe - You get foreigners generally who go home and occasionally something gets broken, but that's life etc. You can get perfectly good expat insurance to cover you for any mishaps on the holiday rental side, so they shouldn't be too many worries. You will also find a wealth of local people able to help you manage your property where ever you choose.
So I had a quick look on Kyero and then on AirBnB and offer the following observations.
Property prices are kept reasonable high due to a small popular island i guess. Outside of the main tourist areas of Barcelona to Sitges/Marbella to Malage/Benidorm to Denia you can find beautiful areas and properties with very reasonable prices.
The other thing that I noticed - On Airbnb there were around 278 holiday rentals (self contained ie not rooms) in that tiny little area that you mention (Caleta de Fuste). So there is an awful lot of competition and prices are very low compared to purchase prices. I found that I could rent a 3 bedroom villa for €45 a night.
Although the holiday session is different there from the rest of Spain and a lot of the places were rented out a lot throughout the year.. But that's a lot of "foot fall" for not so much money.
We are in the Valencia area, south of Valencia City. You can purchase a beautiful 3 bedroom villa here for something in the region of €200-230k. You need something no more than 20mins drive to the beach, on land classed as Urbano (Urbanised - this is important for the tourist license) and should be looking at a 5-6% return for the 10 week holiday period (end of June to the 2nd week of September) to begin with.
I would be looking for €100-135 a night and less people staying (less wear on your home)
If you have a bigger budget, than the area around Altea to Denia is beautiful and offers a return to match.
Be cautious of buying apartments, as you may find in the near future that you are unable to get a tourist license (thus rent it out for short term holiday lets) on an apartment in the area you choose.
So I had a quick look on Kyero and then on AirBnB and offer the following observations.
Property prices are kept reasonable high due to a small popular island i guess. Outside of the main tourist areas of Barcelona to Sitges/Marbella to Malage/Benidorm to Denia you can find beautiful areas and properties with very reasonable prices.
The other thing that I noticed - On Airbnb there were around 278 holiday rentals (self contained ie not rooms) in that tiny little area that you mention (Caleta de Fuste). So there is an awful lot of competition and prices are very low compared to purchase prices. I found that I could rent a 3 bedroom villa for €45 a night.
Although the holiday session is different there from the rest of Spain and a lot of the places were rented out a lot throughout the year.. But that's a lot of "foot fall" for not so much money.
We are in the Valencia area, south of Valencia City. You can purchase a beautiful 3 bedroom villa here for something in the region of €200-230k. You need something no more than 20mins drive to the beach, on land classed as Urbano (Urbanised - this is important for the tourist license) and should be looking at a 5-6% return for the 10 week holiday period (end of June to the 2nd week of September) to begin with.
I would be looking for €100-135 a night and less people staying (less wear on your home)
If you have a bigger budget, than the area around Altea to Denia is beautiful and offers a return to match.
Be cautious of buying apartments, as you may find in the near future that you are unable to get a tourist license (thus rent it out for short term holiday lets) on an apartment in the area you choose.
May 29th 2018, 12:10 pm
#9
Forum Regular
Joined: Mar 2018
Location: Gandia
Posts: 201
Re: looking to move
I appreciate the kind words. so you would definitley say a Villa as appose to an apartment for rental purposes? I think as a budget i would say upto €200k as im aware i would need something in the region of €90k as a deposit + taxes. Could you recommend any particular areas that would suit for this purpose?
Forgetting that the tenants have all the rights and why would anyone really want to make a business out of being a long term landlord - the local governments don't seem to understand that LOL, plus the legal system is such here that it can take 4-5 years to bring a non paying long term tenant to court
This doesn't include villas and the majority of the Spanish want to live in apartments in towns etc
I would say have a look at the Costa Azahar and Costa Blanca areas or perhaps the area East of Malaga - You should be able to find a nice villa for €200K. The best value is had slight away from the usual British tourist areas. 3 bedrooms with a pool, no more than 15 to 20 mins from the beach, ideally with in walking distance of a local shop/restaurants and built on Urbano classed land would be want I would look for!
The most important thing is, get a good lawyer and don't use the lawyer suggested by the agent!
You need to put aside around 13% of the purchase price for the tax, fees, lawyer and Notary - So that would be €26000
A 10% deposit is normally given, once the contact has been signed by both parties. Think of it like "Exchange" and then the rest is given as a Bankers Draft on the day of completion.
Last edited by Smithy73; May 29th 2018 at 12:28 pm.
May 29th 2018, 12:57 pm
#10
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Joined: May 2018
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Re: looking to move
In the current climate I would say do not touch an apartment! Generally the Spanish mainly live in apartments and there is a backlash beginning at the moment in the amount of apartments that have been taken off the rental market and placed on AirBnB.
Forgetting that the tenants have all the rights and why would anyone really want to make a business out of being a long term landlord - the local governments don't seem to understand that LOL, plus the legal system is such here that it can take 4-5 years to bring a non paying long term tenant to court
This doesn't include villas and the majority of the Spanish want to live in apartments in towns etc
I would say have a look at the Costa Azahar and Costa Blanca areas or perhaps the area East of Malaga - You should be able to find a nice villa for €200K. The best value is had slight away from the usual British tourist areas. 3 bedrooms with a pool, no more than 15 to 20 mins from the beach, ideally with in walking distance of a local shop/restaurants and built on Urbano classed land would be want I would look for!
The most important thing is, get a good lawyer and don't use the lawyer suggested by the agent!
You need to put aside around 13% of the purchase price for the tax, fees, lawyer and Notary - So that would be €26000
A 10% deposit is normally given, once the contact has been signed by both parties. Think of it like "Exchange" and then the rest is given as a Bankers Draft on the day of completion.
Forgetting that the tenants have all the rights and why would anyone really want to make a business out of being a long term landlord - the local governments don't seem to understand that LOL, plus the legal system is such here that it can take 4-5 years to bring a non paying long term tenant to court
This doesn't include villas and the majority of the Spanish want to live in apartments in towns etc
I would say have a look at the Costa Azahar and Costa Blanca areas or perhaps the area East of Malaga - You should be able to find a nice villa for €200K. The best value is had slight away from the usual British tourist areas. 3 bedrooms with a pool, no more than 15 to 20 mins from the beach, ideally with in walking distance of a local shop/restaurants and built on Urbano classed land would be want I would look for!
The most important thing is, get a good lawyer and don't use the lawyer suggested by the agent!
You need to put aside around 13% of the purchase price for the tax, fees, lawyer and Notary - So that would be €26000
A 10% deposit is normally given, once the contact has been signed by both parties. Think of it like "Exchange" and then the rest is given as a Bankers Draft on the day of completion.
May 29th 2018, 1:26 pm
#11
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Re: looking to move
Are townhouses a no no or are they classed in the same regard as villa’s or bungalows?
May 29th 2018, 2:14 pm
#12
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Joined: Mar 2018
Location: Gandia
Posts: 201
Re: looking to move
They are normally on the edge town or in the centre of a village. You should get your lawyer to check with the town hall about any restrictions on getting a tourist license.
Something that has been renovated by an expat can be amazing.. although as a rule the Spanish aren't great at "reforming" (renovating) these places and normally sell them on just as grandma left it! I have seen some great townhouses here locally from anything from €40K to €150K fully reformed. Just be careful that a €40K doer upper can be a complete money pit!
So townhouse can be great, if they have been refurbished by someone else. They offer you a close to town or a village location - which can be great
The downside is normally no parking, it's unusual, but not impossible to get a garden - normally a courtyard and roof terrace and even more unusual to have a pool!
From a rental point of view - somewhere like Oliva you can buy a really nice refurbished townhouse for €100-125K. There is a great English community there (the Cinema shows original language films - English on a Thurday night etc) and the old town is 1.5KM from the beach... You will always have English tourists happy to pay €400-500 for a week as the place is very popular!
So a townhouse within a 1mile from the beach in a place like Oliva sure... A townhouse that is walking distance to the beach > 150 meters - even better!
A townhouse any further from the beach, forget it! Basically if the place doesn't have a pool you will not get renters, unless it's close to the beach etc
Last edited by Smithy73; May 29th 2018 at 2:17 pm.
May 30th 2018, 2:57 pm
#13
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Re: looking to move
Townhouses from a license point of view are normally fine - Your not caught out by restrictions such as people living below you LOL.
They are normally on the edge town or in the centre of a village. You should get your lawyer to check with the town hall about any restrictions on getting a tourist license.
Something that has been renovated by an expat can be amazing.. although as a rule the Spanish aren't great at "reforming" (renovating) these places and normally sell them on just as grandma left it! I have seen some great townhouses here locally from anything from €40K to €150K fully reformed. Just be careful that a €40K doer upper can be a complete money pit!
So townhouse can be great, if they have been refurbished by someone else. They offer you a close to town or a village location - which can be great
The downside is normally no parking, it's unusual, but not impossible to get a garden - normally a courtyard and roof terrace and even more unusual to have a pool!
From a rental point of view - somewhere like Oliva you can buy a really nice refurbished townhouse for €100-125K. There is a great English community there (the Cinema shows original language films - English on a Thurday night etc) and the old town is 1.5KM from the beach... You will always have English tourists happy to pay €400-500 for a week as the place is very popular!
So a townhouse within a 1mile from the beach in a place like Oliva sure... A townhouse that is walking distance to the beach > 150 meters - even better!
A townhouse any further from the beach, forget it! Basically if the place doesn't have a pool you will not get renters, unless it's close to the beach etc
They are normally on the edge town or in the centre of a village. You should get your lawyer to check with the town hall about any restrictions on getting a tourist license.
Something that has been renovated by an expat can be amazing.. although as a rule the Spanish aren't great at "reforming" (renovating) these places and normally sell them on just as grandma left it! I have seen some great townhouses here locally from anything from €40K to €150K fully reformed. Just be careful that a €40K doer upper can be a complete money pit!
So townhouse can be great, if they have been refurbished by someone else. They offer you a close to town or a village location - which can be great
The downside is normally no parking, it's unusual, but not impossible to get a garden - normally a courtyard and roof terrace and even more unusual to have a pool!
From a rental point of view - somewhere like Oliva you can buy a really nice refurbished townhouse for €100-125K. There is a great English community there (the Cinema shows original language films - English on a Thurday night etc) and the old town is 1.5KM from the beach... You will always have English tourists happy to pay €400-500 for a week as the place is very popular!
So a townhouse within a 1mile from the beach in a place like Oliva sure... A townhouse that is walking distance to the beach > 150 meters - even better!
A townhouse any further from the beach, forget it! Basically if the place doesn't have a pool you will not get renters, unless it's close to the beach etc
May 31st 2018, 12:04 pm
#14
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Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 878
Re: looking to move
I cannot entirely agree with Smithy.I live in Alfaz/Albir which is very multi-cultural.For many years I rented out an apartment on long term basis & had various nationalities as tenants which included Dutch,Romanian,Algerian,Scandinavian & s.American.I did always have someone who was employed & they had the utility bills in their name,with a proper legal contract.Very many of the edificios around had a lot of renters also & again were not Spanish tenants.Perhaps there is more employment in this area compared with Gandia/Oliva,I can't say as I have only ever visited there.I have Spanish relatives & I find they live in as much a variety of homes as other nationalities.In fact the first apartment I bought some 30 years ago,was owned by a British couple & many of the other owners were from Norway.These eventually passed on to the next generation of their families,as the Spanish do.Don't be put off with a nice apartment in your range of budget,especially if you can afford to buy outright.
May 31st 2018, 12:13 pm
#15
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Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 878
Re: looking to move
Sorry,I always think of something I should have added- a senior moment! I did also part own another apartment in Albir at one time.The other owner was resident but the block had many renters & resident owners of different nationalities.So much so that the comments of the outcome of the annual Community Meeting was sent out in about 5 different languages.Perhaps this will show you that apartments do not necessarily have only Spanish people in them.