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Liability Insurance

Liability Insurance

Old Mar 16th 2011, 11:04 am
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Default Liability Insurance

Some friends I have in another village are very distraught at the fact that they are to be sued for damages following an accident by a workman employed by them to paint the front of their house. The workmen arrived, put up their own scaffolding and then proceeded to paint the walls. One man fell from the top of the scaffolding and broke his leg. They are being sued for Euros 20,000. They have been told that it is up to the customer to provide insurance in the event of an accident. This seems to me to be entirely wrong and I wondered if anyone here has any knowledge of this practice or has been subjected to anything similar.
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Old Mar 16th 2011, 11:50 am
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Default Re: Liability Insurance

Originally Posted by Alectryon View Post
Some friends I have in another village are very distraught at the fact that they are to be sued for damages following an accident by a workman employed by them to paint the front of their house. The workmen arrived, put up their own scaffolding and then proceeded to paint the walls. One man fell from the top of the scaffolding and broke his leg. They are being sued for Euros 20,000. They have been told that it is up to the customer to provide insurance in the event of an accident. This seems to me to be entirely wrong and I wondered if anyone here has any knowledge of this practice or has been subjected to anything similar.
Spanish builders who've worked for me have all had 3rd-party liability insurance - I thought that this was a requirement!

The loophole maybe down to their status - were they being paid 'cash-in-hand' (black money)? - were they self-employed or where they part of an S.L.?

When they quoted for the job, did you get a formal prespuesto? if so, was their NIF and company details on it?
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Old Mar 16th 2011, 11:56 am
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Default Re: Liability Insurance

Builders would normally have third party liability insurance but that covers damage by them to your property.

It the accident was caused in some way by the owner then he would be liable. House insurance normally covers third party liability.
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Old Mar 16th 2011, 2:10 pm
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Default Re: Liability Insurance

Prespuesto! I have yet to find a company that will give me a quotation in writing - it is always 'it will be about???', and that verbally.

I can't contact my friends at present as the lady is in hospital and her husband is with her. I doubt if they got a quotation - they are very rare.

I will ask them to check their building and contents insurance to see if they are covered - I know that I am going to check mine!
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Old Mar 16th 2011, 2:21 pm
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Default Re: Liability Insurance

Originally Posted by Alectryon View Post
Prespuesto! I have yet to find a company that will give me a quotation in writing - it is always 'it will be about???', and that verbally.

I can't contact my friends at present as the lady is in hospital and her husband is with her. I doubt if they got a quotation - they are very rare.

I will ask them to check their building and contents insurance to see if they are covered - I know that I am going to check mine!
If they adverstised and had business cards it may help to have copies and it then imply that they were at least autonomo and then responsible for themselves.
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Old Mar 16th 2011, 3:48 pm
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Default Re: Liability Insurance

Originally Posted by Alectryon View Post
Prespuesto! I have yet to find a company that will give me a quotation in writing - it is always 'it will be about???', and that verbally.

I can't contact my friends at present as the lady is in hospital and her husband is with her. I doubt if they got a quotation - they are very rare.

I will ask them to check their building and contents insurance to see if they are covered - I know that I am going to check mine!
Any one who has done work for me - builders, guttering, painting etc. has ALWAYS provided a prespuesto first. (Whether I then paid in black with or without IVA, I will leave to your imagination)
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Old Mar 16th 2011, 4:35 pm
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Default Re: Liability Insurance

One point I would like clarified: If I employ someone to do some work for me is it up to me to ascertain whether or not they are autonomo? I ask because I have heard on good authority that it is entirely up to the worker to be legal, it is nothing to do with the employer/customer. It is almost certainly in his interests to find out - to ensure they have liability insurance and so on - but he is not breaking any laws.
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Old Mar 16th 2011, 5:07 pm
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Default Re: Liability Insurance

If you employ someone who is not working legally then you will be held equally responsible legally.

It is up to you to determine his legal status before you employ him.
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Old Mar 16th 2011, 5:08 pm
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Default Re: Liability Insurance

Originally Posted by jimenato View Post
... If I employ someone to do some work for me is it up to me to ascertain whether or not they are autonomo? ...
I would say not other than to know that they are legit and have the necessary 'credentials'.

Originally Posted by jimenato View Post
... It is almost certainly in his interests to find out - to ensure they have liability insurance and so on - but he is not breaking any laws.
I don't think you would be breaking any laws for employing him to do a job, nor would he other than possible tax evasion etc.

Originally Posted by Fred James View Post
If you employ someone who is not working legally then you will be held equally responsible legally.

It is up to you to determine his legal status before you employ him.
WOW! I did not know that - thanks for the info.
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Old Mar 16th 2011, 5:15 pm
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Default Re: Liability Insurance

Originally Posted by snikpoh View Post

WOW! I did not know that - thanks for the info.
In the UK it would be called "aiding and abetting".
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Old Mar 16th 2011, 11:14 pm
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Default Re: Liability Insurance

Originally Posted by Alectryon View Post
Some friends I have in another village are very distraught at the fact that they are to be sued for damages following an accident by a workman employed by them to paint the front of their house. The workmen arrived, put up their own scaffolding and then proceeded to paint the walls. One man fell from the top of the scaffolding and broke his leg. They are being sued for Euros 20,000. They have been told that it is up to the customer to provide insurance in the event of an accident. This seems to me to be entirely wrong and I wondered if anyone here has any knowledge of this practice or has been subjected to anything similar.
I have to say my (Spanish) neighbour has experience of this from someone he knows. The same thing happened and they were sued as well.

If you have work done on your house it is it seems most important that you get insurance extended to cover the workers. He has done this himself when he had his car port finally rebuilt.
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Old Mar 16th 2011, 11:27 pm
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Default Re: Liability Insurance

Originally Posted by Fred James View Post
If you employ someone who is not working legally then you will be held equally responsible legally.

It is up to you to determine his legal status before you employ him.
That is counter to what I have been told by an abogado. It is entirely up to the person doing the work, not up to the person having the work done. This was looked into in some detail by someone who was going to use a contractor to do some work. The contractor himself was legit but he employed casual workers. The person having the work done checked with his abogado and was told somewhat to his surprise that not only was he absolved of responsibility but the contractor was as well - it is entirely up to the individual worker to be legally autonomo.

It could be down to the meaning of the word 'employ' I suppose...
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