learning Spanish
 

Hello,
my first post here.
In the UK, it is very easy for new arrivals to get help with learning to speak English. There is a very professional structure of lessons and officially recognised qualifications in ESOL - English for speakers of other languages - much of it very reasonably priced and sometimes, esp for 16-19s, free, through public FE colleges.
Is there any similar public provision in Spain or are you thrown on the mercy of the private sector?
In either case, what have been your experiences and what are typical costs?

Thanks,

Mark

Re: learning Spanish
 

I think the answer may well be 'it depends on the area'. We have been looking for help with our Spanish for 18 months and enlisted the help of a Spanish friend but have only been able to come up with certificated courses with exams etc so not suitable for us. However in other areas we understand that there are opportunities to learn via the town hall.

Rosemary

Re: learning Spanish
 

so is not possible to pay someone privately? I am a teacher of Spanish in the UK and planning to move over to Spain, possible Costa Blanca North and wondered whether I could make a living teaching Spanish to ex pats? Are there lots of people doing this already? Or do people generally just not want to pay too much?

Re: learning Spanish
 

In Ontinyent (Valencia region, CB North), we have at least three 'companies' who teach Spanish to us ex-pats but who also teach English to the Spanish.

These courses cost me around 46 euro per month and are quite gramatical as opposed to being 'conversational' spanish. You can obviously then perservere for as long as you wish.

If you want, you can then take exams when you feel sufficiently competent.

Re: learning Spanish
 

Absolutely right, There are free lessons available in Torreveija & El Campello, not sure how you get on the list, I guess go along & ask.

Re: learning Spanish
 

so maybe in the right area, teaching spanish to expats in a fun conversational way rather than bogging them down with boring grammar might be a reasonable way to earn a living over there? :D

Re: learning Spanish
 

Sorry to disagree, but grammar is very important even at the most basic level. The best way to learn any language is to learn as if you are learning maths, learn the rules they are pretty constant.

Re: learning Spanish
 

Pay for Spanish lessons? You've got all the formal resources you'll ever need freely available on the Internet.....and as soon as you open the front door there's one big practical Spanish lesson going on all around you.

Re: learning Spanish
 

or Valenciano depending on where you live :rofl: which can be a tad confusing :eek:

Re: learning Spanish
 

Everything is possible, in our area there are lessons provided by some local town halls, others by local buisnesses, there are local language schools, and plenty of people who will give private one to one lessons. You just need to look in local english language papers in your area to find them.

Re: learning Spanish
 

Anyone thinking of coming to the Costa del Sol, don't bother wasting your money learning 'text book Madrid' Spanish, they speak a completely different style of Spanish (akin to how the Geordie's speak 'the Queen's English) - if people from Madrid have extreme difficulty understanding Andalucians, you can learn all you want from the books but you won't understand them. They speak 100 mph and omit all the 's's and put in 's's where there shouldn't be!

If you're a foreigner trying to speak 'proper' Spanish with your English accent sometimes they don't understand you either.

eg Numbers: Uno dos tres cuatro 'th'eenco seis - in Andalucian it's uno doh treh cuatro seengco sey.

Dos aguas = dowawah.
Español = Epanol
Autobus = Boo
:confused:

Re: learning Spanish
 

Learning the basic, good Castillian is a good place to start, as that's all classes will teach in the UK. You can then modify your vocabulary as you go.

Set up intercambios with a Spaniard who wants to learn English, and most importantly, listen to Spanish radio and TV. The more you hear, the more your brain tunes in. I have noticed that the Andalucians do seem to be slowing down for me. What was gabble starts to break down into words.

I agree Andalucians do shed the 's' wherever possible, so buenos dias becomes buendia, but they also lisp 's's like they lisp the c and z in cerveza.

Learning that Castillian with proper attention to grammar will give you an excellent basis to build on. Grammar is a fascinating subject in its own right, and it is appalling that it isn't taught in schools.

Re: learning Spanish
 

The town hall provides free Spanish classes where I live and has done so for 5 years now. 3 levels: beginner, intermediate and advanced, 2 hrs per day, 5 days per week. Only problem being that they stick to the school "terms" so there is a loooooong break during the summer months.
A couple of years ago a private language school opened up, giving excellent group lessons with a native Spanish teacher, but far too cheap imho and so it didn't survive unfortunately.
My personal preference would always be for a native Spanish teacher of the language.

Re: learning Spanish
 

many ayuntamientos offer free or very cheap lessons for foreigners....however they tend to be in big groups and the teacher may not speak your language so it may not suit you.

A lot of my students come to me after a year or more of these free lessons having learned next to nothing!

Re: learning Spanish
 

That suggests to me that they haven't been trying. While a bad teacher is a terrible thing, it is up to the student to do something.

I spent a couple of years learning Japanese, and the teacher I had for the first year was terrible.

The only way I could cope was to spend the week before each lesson studying what was to come, because had I just sat there I would have learned nothing.

Re: learning Spanish
 

:lol: Confusing :blink: you aint kidding. xxx's instead of j's for a start,
my town is spelt Muchamel or Mutxamel even the town hall doesn't know how to spell it :confused:
Up the road there is a place called jijona & Xixona :blink:

Re: learning Spanish
 

Or there is Elche.. or Elx.. depending..
I'm currently using the 'My Spanish Coach' on the Nintendo DS lite, it's a bit American/Mexican, but still works.

Re: learning Spanish
 

Is that My Spanish Coach 1 or 2. I was thinking about getting both to have another way of learning more or endorsing what I already know but did not want to send for them until I found out more.

So, PLEASE tell me more!!!!!

Rosemary

Re: learning Spanish
 

Just my two centimos but I really like the Rosetta Stone.
You can sit in front of it for 5 mins or a couple of hours and it's actually enjoyable!

I've discovered that starting a sentence ¿Hables Ingles? is the worst thing to do, have a go in Spanish, make words up if you have to, do shadow puppets or express yourself in mime. Entertaining for the locals and shows that you're prepared to make a tit of yourself for the sake of being understood.

Ste

Re: learning Spanish
 

Also, it means you are approaching them informally which might cause offense.

Have a standard phrase available like 'Puede Ud. ayudarme por favor?'

That helps enormously.

Re: learning Spanish
 

I've been here 6+ years and I haven't called anyone Usted yet. Don't intend to start now either!

Re: learning Spanish
 

What, never? I've always understood that one should be a little careful who you 'tutear'.

Re: learning Spanish
 

Apart from answering the phone with diga I never use Usted. It's dated and disappearing, and people of my generation rarely use it. In the south it seems to be used a bit more but where I am only a handful of people ever call me Usted (head mistress in the school, shop assistant in El Corte Ingles, in the bank, and maybe sometimes a waiter, but usually not). My mother-in-law calls her mother-in-law Usted but none of the kids do and she's 93. Most of the time I hear it is when old people are chatting to one another or in extreme formality.

Re: learning Spanish
 

I see it a bit like the old Yorkshire saying. 'Thee thou them as thees thee and not afore.'

OK, I'm in the far south, so maybe it's a bit more appropriate there. I just think it's far better to start off like that and be told that it's not necessary than to assume it's OK and maybe offend.

There's also a lot of old folk where we are.

Re: learning Spanish
 

I've never heard a usted in conversation either.
And you're never going to offend anybody by not using a usted....the Spanish don't expect classical grammar from guiris anyway.

Re: learning Spanish
 

Didn't know there were two different ones. Mine is just labelled 'My Spanish Coach', and was only bought a couple of months ago, so if there are two, then I guess it is 1. I've read some unflattering reviews, but I've found it useful, and have certaily learned a load of new words etc. There is more than just the learning as there is a dictioonary and reference section that does give you conjugations of verbs, at least in my copy which is obviously not the most current version, bought mine off e bay, much cheaper than Amazon.

Re: learning Spanish
 

I presumed that the 1 & 2 were two different levels rather than original and current versions.

Rosemary

Re: learning Spanish
 

Out of curiosity, how well do you speak Spanish?

It's been my experience that I do hear it. Maybe not all the time, but it is there.

You are 100% right in that the Spanish don't expect to hear classical grammar from a guiri, but then I don't intend to be thought of as just a guiri. You can't escape the tag 100%, but by god you can reduce it.


Moving to another country, area, whatever is all about scoring points.

If you fail to score enough points, you will not be welcome. The more that you score, the more likely you are to be welcome.

Language is the single most important thing in moving to another country.

Try this little test. For whom would you have the most sympathy, and who would you be the most likely to help?

1. A Muslim immigrant that refused to bother to learn English beyond the
most basic level.

2. A Muslim immigrant who had taken the trouble to not only learn English
really well, but who had also picked up the local idioms and ways of
speaking

The fact is that of the huge numbers of English going to live in Spain, very few seem to bother to learn the language, and of those that do, how many really try for grammatical, properly spoken Spanish?

I had a hell of a shock the last time I was in Spain, when the guy who watches over our place let slip how sick he was of hearing so much English spoken. This is a guy who speaks some himself. I was just pleased that we have always demonstrated a grim determination to learn the language and use it as much as possible.

Re: learning Spanish
 

It's an impossible thing to quantify Bil. I'd obviously like to be much better than I am, and I'm quite self critical of my ability.
But some days I end up speaking as much Spanish as I do English, and I get by OK. I have to be able to communicate because all my IT component suppliers are Spanish, and I have done translation work for Spanish web designers so they can get grammatically perfect English translations on their sites.
Unlike most Brits, I don't have time to sit down and formally learn, I've just got to get on and do it! I haven't found it particularly difficult.....maybe it's because I did Latin for 4 years back in the 60's....or maybe I'm one of those people who can just pick up languages.
But I don't let on locally to Brits (apart from a couple of close friends) how much I can speak in Spanish, or I'd never be able to get on with my life.

Re: learning Spanish
 

Hmmm. From that I would guess you speak it rather well. I find people who claim fluency (mostly) are talking complete sh*te, or else don't have a clue what fluency means.

Nice to find someone who treats the language with some respect. Me, I find grammar fascinating (which immediately marks me down as a sad anal git to many people) but it does help me learn the language. I always see fluency as Xeno's tortoise.

Remember the story? Achilles is put into a theoretical race with a tortoise, but the tortoise is give a 100 yards start. By the time Achilles reaches the 100 yard mark, the tortoise has moved forward, and so on.

When you start learning a language for the first time, you get told that you will be fluent when your vocabulary contains 1000 words, or something like that. When you get there tho you realise that fluency lies beyond that point and so on.

Anyway, I do find that approaching strangers etc (ESPECIALLY officials) with Ud. does seem to gain me a slight advantage, as tho while it may not apply so much these days, appreciation of its existance gains you 'points' if you know what I mean?

Re: learning Spanish
 

IMO the more formality you apply, the more barriers you create.
The Spanish are quite a happy go lucky bunch, they like to have a laugh and generally take the piss.
That's perfect for me because being from South Wales that's my natural way as well. It was always a concern to me that it would take some time to be able to get my personality over, but in reality it was probably only about 6-9 months.
Now I just tell them they're lazy stupid dagos....and they love it. They're actually very proud that they've qualified for a generic slang name. Give the men loads of abuse, give the women loads of compliments, and you got it cracked.
Keep it formal and you'll be forever on the outside looking in.

Re: learning Spanish
 

You misunderstand me I think.

I'm not talking about maintaining formality, just extending politeness. As I say, it serves me well, and I tend to end up very friendly with a lot of people, where some UK expats don't manage to engage quite as well.

Re: learning Spanish
 

I'm on the side of "usted". If a waiter, shop assistant, doctor, door to door salesman, council official or my childrens' friends on first meeting me address me as "usted" then I should do the same. After some first meetings "tu" would be established as the norm, in the case of my childrens' friends, but I still address a doctor, a waiter, a shop assistant or a council official as "usted".

Re: learning Spanish
 

I'm certain you must be joking about the school kids, right? I call the doctor José and he calls me Guirilandes. The door to door salesman is just being extremely subservient in the hope of making a sale.

I agree. A lot of the time it is someone who speaks zero talking about someone else that has the most basic communication skills but because those skills are greater than their own they believe the other person is fluent.

I put fluent right near the very top of the tree just below a true bilingual in so much as to say with a bilingual the language is completely transparent (i.e. the second language is not foreign) whereas a fluent would be an accomplished speaker but may have a slightly different personality or way of expressing himself in the foreign language.

Grammar is but one tool. For someone that is beyond the age of learning through acquisition alone it is helpful in constructing intelligible sentences but for the listening, reading and comprehension facets it is much less helpful. To improve skills here the only way is to read, listen and look up to improve vocabulary of not only words but also idioms.

bil, there are lots of ways to explain what you desire without using tú or Usted. Once you use either (along with an imperative or the present tense) you are already getting pretty close to the mark.

Re: learning Spanish
 

Bokeh,
I said my childrens' friends. I did not say that they were school children. My children are in their twenties.
Imho Doctors should be addressed as usted. As you have such a friendly relationship with your Doctor obviously that would not be the case.

Re: learning Spanish
 

If they call you Usted it is because they are being subservient to someone whom they consider to be their social superior, but you certainly do not call your kids friends Usted whatever age they may be and however they may address you.

Re: learning Spanish
 

Don’t sweat the detail. The Spanish are extremely forgiving and happily appreciate that you even try. My suggestion is buy the Michel Thomas 8 CD pack, a CD walkman or Ipod, and just work your way through it in say, two months with a fair amount of repetitive use.

Even then, don’t knock yourself out with being spot on. A lot of Almerian natives we’ve met have an appalling slur, miss out letters of words altogether etc, and who cares? (eg: Epannya, Buenadier)

Wade in and say what you can. Don’t freeze trying to be perfect. When I originally learnt French (late 70s/80s) I suffered from thinking I had to be perfect. You don’t.

gfi! :)

Re: learning Spanish
 

Hmmm. Interesting difference between politeness and subservience.

I certainly wouldn't consider it the latter.

As for detail and perfection, well it all depends on your take on the subject. For some, learning the language is a tool to get by, and why should they bother to learn any more than that.

For me, a language is more than a tool. I like to be forever polishing and improving it so that it fits better and better.

To illustrate in English, it's the difference between 'would you like', and 'do you want'. 'Different from', and 'different to', whether you use ' less than ten' or 'fewer than ten'.

If you can't understand the differences in English, then you are unlikely to give a sh*t about Spanish as a thing of beauty.

Re: learning Spanish
 

Bokeh,
If you read my first post I said "my childrens' friends on first meeting me" "First" being the operative word. Thereafter the "usted" is dropped.
Maybe I'm lucky and my children have nice, polite, Spanish friends who are aware of how they should behave.

Re: learning Spanish
 

My children are polite and know how they should behave but they do not call there friends' mothers Usted.