Learning the language in your host country.
 

Speaking the language in a country that you are resident in is very desirable.However so many find it extremely hard.Conversation is possible even if the words are pretty well fractured or as my Spanish granddaughter pompously says,out of earshot of her Mother,"British people NEVER speak Spanish properly".Even for conversation you will have had to listen carefully to native speakers & know what they are talking about.Like the UK there are regional accents & many rude words just as we have in the English language Written language is so much harder. .I was surprised to hear Mr.G.Hunt saying some months ago that one of the aims of the Govn.was to start a literacy programme for those lacking the ability to communicate in English,something that had not been done before.How out of touch our politicians are ! I was a volunteer tutor for the "Adult Literacy" programme that was ongoing in the 1970´s in the UK because the Govn. of the day realised just how many people had reached adulthood without recognising any written word.Obviously we had training during which I found just how many reasons there can be for this situation which annoy´s me a bit when I hear folks declare it is simply down to laziness,& others who put it down to"old age",both can be correct but that is not the whole picture.Although I had an entirely different business then,I had previously qualified as a remedial masseur as I was interested in helping those with mobility problems .My pupil was on a one to one basis with a brain damaged man.Other tutors were engaged in assisting allsorts from people who had missed out in absence from school slow learners who were left behind & then ignored,dyslexics a problem we didn´t even investigate until much later & of course the down right lazy to give you some idea.The greatest capacity we have for taking in knowledge is at the age of 12/14 years of age,I was taught although of course we do continue to add to our knowledge& as I have found too,getting older does slow your ability as does stress perhaps after a sudden trauma. For me I was lucky while resident in Spain in having fluent Spanish speakers as family members yet I think I was better in speaking French simply because I prefer that language.Therefore spare a thought for those among you who are trying to grapple with Spanish.As a nation we have nothing to be proud of regarding integration in other languages.A close relative in England,a teacher of German,French & Spanish in a private school when changing to a British State school,had to re-train in Mathematics to apply for a head teacher post as language skills were not not required.

Re: Learning the language in your host country.
 

Both my wife and I have tried to learn and speak Spanish whilst we have been residents here. Neither of us wish to be "Fluent" but we have reached a reasonable level in which we can have a conversation with our friends. So far we have met very few Spanish, at our " language Exchange meetings" ( sadly on hold during covid) who can speak " fluent" English, but why should that be an issue? The main problems we have conversing with Spanish people that we meet, is that, contrary to what "Michelle Thomas" says, the Spanish do not want to wait until you have formulated the correct order and endings for verbs, as we can see them almost jumping up and down with impatience., Also as a lot of them have not tried to learn any language other than their own, and as such do not realise that if we ( especially me!) do not understand a phrase or word, simply rephrasing or substituting with a different expression often works. I also recall one instance, when an over worked clerk at the local hospital, was saying to a persistant and repetetive person, "Cucheme! Cucheme!". It was some time later that I realised he telling the person to "listen to him" ( Escucheme!).. Andalucia it seems, poses another difficulty to understanding Spanish. Finally It winds me up when I visit my daughter in Barcelona, and after spending time learning Spanish, I get mutterings about not being able to speak Catalan!.
Pete

Re: Learning the language in your host country.
 

Using the language in a real setting is different from a more controlled classroom setting where focus might be on accuracy or reinforcement. Fluency, as in speed of delivery is much more important than accuracy. The Spanish are probably not so much impatient as feeling the need to help you formulate your utterances. It sounds like you are at the stage where you lack automacy in retrieving language which is a perfectly normal stage to be at when starting out. Practice is the key as you start to find yourself quickly using familiar language patterns and structures. It takes time but will happen if you have opportunities. Intercambios tend to be dominated by more native English speakers than Spanish so they can be quite frustrating but there again everything helps. I found that psychologically breaking away from English cultural practices helped alot in the beginning. So avoid English speaking areas if possible and frequent more Spanish ones. That definitely helps get you in the zone

Re: Learning the language in your host country.
 

I find it difficult to learn Spanish to a level of reasonable conversation. I can have a few words and very brief simple conversations with my neighbours. I never learned another language not even the normal French that was taught at Secondary School, at my School it was only those in the top stream that got to do French, I was in the second stream, obviously deemed too dim lol. I did lessons but found that the class had such a range that either some that spoke reasonable Spanish who to me should have been in a different class took over with lengthy conversations that were beyond most of the class or constant newcomers coming for a few weeks which meant going back to very basics all the time. I did mention both points a few times. Obviously any class can become disjointed given we all progress at a different pace. Also when practising spanish with neighbours many that take the time and want to help you insist on correcting you to speak as they think is correct in Andalucía where S's don't exist. Its difficult but I think important to try and learn rather than as some do just speak English in a very loud and silly stilted way assuming that the Spanish will eventually understand you.

Re: Learning the language in your host country.
 

At least you are giving it a go, Bob22 as so many others.In a lighter vein, Although English by birth,I have mostly Scottish family members & a few months ago relocated back to southern Scotland.Now,I thought,at least I would not have to grapple with a foreign language.More fool me.In my home county of Hampshire,we call people"my lover" & "hen" & "pal" can be heard frequently in Scotland when speaking to a complete stranger.But don´t be misled,"sex" is the number after five here.

Re: Learning the language in your host country.
 

First time poster, long time lurker, I have tried to learn Spanish a few times via audio cassettes in the car, CD’s, books and never advanced, it isn’t easy to self teach in my opinion. During lockdown last year I decided to start to learn Spanish via the Duolingo app which is free, it is a good resource but will never get you fluent, you do pick up lots of words which you do remember and will come in useful later, I recently started taking Spanish lessons for beginners via zoom with a local lady who originates from Barcelona, it isn’t going to be easy and no quick fix but it is structured learning, at 59 years old I don’t absorb things as I did previously but I am enjoying learning, what I have noticed though, holiday Spanish is different to learning everyday Spanish, in holiday Spanish you can ask for things but not really understand the reply 😊

What resources have others used to learn?

Re: Learning the language in your host country.
 

My wife uses "Duelingo" to help her with her Spanish, alas she is constantly complaining about it, as they use " Latin American" Spanish, indeed she wrote to them about this and they replied stating that "Castellano" Spanish is only a dialect and not correct.
Pete

Re: Learning the language in your host country.
 

It is true that Duolingo does use Latin American Spanish. I dont think you will get far with it as it focuses in a very controlled way on vocab and structures. It tends to give the impression that language learning is level by level learning which is now recognised as not cognitively what happens. Having said that it is free and helps to get started so why not?

Re: Learning the language in your host country.
 

Rather than learning via cassettes/CD's etc, could you enrol in a Spanish for beginners class locally?. You never know what contacts you make. I enrolled for advanced Spanish for 2 years several years ago & it did me good.
If language apps are free, then beware. They're often written for young learners with sharp & quick memories!
I sympathise with your age at learning a new language. I'm now 74, memory not what it was. Persevered with Basque for a few years, as we live here; have given up!
Radio can be a great help, eg internet radio.

Re: Learning the language in your host country.
 

I am taking lessons now, they were face to face prior to Covid 19 but only available via zoom now, not the same as being in a class room environment but it is all that is available at the moment.

Re: Learning the language in your host country.
 

Duolingo is a very good resource for practicing a little bit each day, which I think is fundamental to improving language skills. Yes it is South American Spanish but it's better than nothing. Unfortunately there are no silver bullets for becoming fluent. You need to use various resources, and I think Duolingo is one of the best. The main bit missing from Duolingo is conversational Spanish. The best app I've found for that is iTalki, which is basically an app for connecting students with native teachers so they can set up zoom/skype lessons. The advantage of iTalki is it makes it easy to schedule a class with a teacher, and it handles the payment side of things. Another excellent resource is your telly. Try to watch programmes/films in Spanish with the subtitles on. Maybe try watching a favourite film or series in Spanish on Netflix? Maybe watch it a few times? Generally I don't recommend group classes. Unless you have a small group and a very good teacher, they tend to be inefficient and tiresome.

Finally I think it's important to control your expectations. It took me about 5 years living and working in Spain before I felt comfortably fluent. And I had the advantage of a Spanish wife, working in a Spanish office and basically having full immersion every day. For someone who is retired and living in an English speaking household, becoming fluent is extremely difficult. So I think it's best to relax and try to enjoy the learning process, with the understanding that you'll probably never be as fluent as you'd like. I think people give up on languages because they try to look for shortcuts, or think they can squeeze their language learning into a few intensive months. It doesn't work like that, and they usually end up exhausted and frustrated. That's why I like Duolingo, if you use it correctly you can just plod along doing 10 minutes a day for years if you like.

Re: Learning the language in your host country.
 

I agree re duolingo and I found it very useful for learning and retaining words and simple phrases. They then changed it to the hearts system whereby you run out of hearts and that's it for that day. That for me became tiresome when you hit a point where you made minor errors. It was better before this hearts system.

Re: Learning the language in your host country.
 

You can get infinite hearts if you pay a monthly subscription. My 11 year old son is learning French with Duolingo and I ended up paying because he was getting frustrated by running out of hearts for making trivial mistakes. However I did French (from Spanish) with Duolingo a few years ago and I didn't have a problem with the hearts. In fact they helped me ration it each day as I felt I was cramming too much in order to finish higher up the leagues.

Re: Learning the language in your host country.
 

Yes you are right one can pay for indefinite hearts.

Re: Learning the language in your host country.
 

I've started learning with Duolingo at the start of the first lock down and didn't know it is South American Spanish :( it is always so difficult with the different accents. I want to relocate to Spain but don't know where yet so I'll learn the basic and take private lessons when I'm there so I think I'll learn the accent of the town/area I'll live in. There is also a good website lingua.com is for beginners listening to short and easy stories.

I'm originally from Germany but have been living in the UK for over 10 years. It was really difficult the first time not understanding a lot English because you're concentrating all time but fortunately the people here have been all very very friendly and did speak slowly so that has helped :)

May I ask for your opinion do you think learning with Duolingo is useful when relocating to Spain or should I look for another app???

Thank you in advance

Re: Learning the language in your host country.
 

Ive just looked at lingua.com, I found the vocabulary section on lingua useful to practice what I have already learned during the last 10 months on Duolingo, good for self testing and a good indication of what you have absorbed and how far you have come, I don’t think you could learn Spanish from scratch on just lingua without joining and taking lessons.
Another good resource for learning is la Vida loca on youtube, it is an old BBC learn Spanish programme, you can always pick something up to add to your knowledge from any resource you find

Re: Learning the language in your host country.
 

Lefty2021 > I agree with you can't learn the language with lingua. I also find the vocabulary section quite good and the stories because you have the Spanish text so you are able to listen and read. I can remember when I've listening the first time to one story I could not understand anything but I've found out when I listen to a story several time I do understand more and more the words and I hope it will help a little bit with understanding Spanish speaking people but at the end I don't know.

Thanks a lot for the advice with the BBC program I'll have a look. Think you need to try everything and hope to find something it suits you :thumb:

Re: Learning the language in your host country.
 

Here’s Vida Loca, i picked up quite a bit from this along with Duolingo before I started taking lessons

youtube.com/watch?v=J85JdNuCQ6I

for learning numbers, pronunciation, verbs and loads more this is well worth investigating, there is so much good information amongst it if you search, well worth a look, just make sure you select the European Spanish and not South American

spanishdict.com/conjugate/leer

This week I have been using Wlingua,

wlingua.com/en/

it does offer something, combined together they do all have a place in learning Spanish along with proper lessons with a native speaker.

Does anyone else have any links which they recommend?

It won’t let me post the full urls

Re: Learning the language in your host country.
 

Intercambio and discussing football, no English tv for our first 10’years helped as well!

Re: Learning the language in your host country.
 

basketball on TV great for getting numbers , the commentator reports the score and it flashes up on the screen

Re: Learning the language in your host country.
 

One of the problems that British peple have learning ANY foreigh language is that English is a very unstructured language, we do NOT decline verbs in any set way. and word endings do not indicate whether a subject is masculine, feminine or neuter. This means that when we do try to learn a structured language it is difficult. I did French to 'O' level standard, and some Latin at school, having done these it helped me when I was learning Spanish and Russian, Russian to GCSE level.

Re: Learning the language in your host country.
 

Not sure if it explains British persons seemingly speaking less languages than say, Europeans however it is something that intially confounds English speakers. I imagine that the fact that English dominates as a global language means Britain is less likely to need or be subjected to other languages accounts for our poor language ability. That said I feel it is a shame from the point of view that language learning appears to use different intelligences than other disciplines so British children probably dont develop those skills as much as their foreign counterparts. It also leads to a rather embarrassing image of us being slightly stupid.

Re: Learning the language in your host country.
 

I am using Language transfer - a different way to learn and doesn't concentrate on all the grammar that other courses do. Involves listening to a lot of Spanish but slowly - win, win!!

Re: Learning the language in your host country.
 

Another useful app for learning Spanish that I have found is Language Transfer which is a totally free app. It is along the lines of Michelle Thomas and Paul Noble but I find it much easier to follow and learn from. It does also do other languages if any wants to learn other than Spanish. As for the Spanish it does cover the various alternatives Latin America etc with explanations of differences. I will add the link for the App from Playstore for those with Android Tablets/mobiles and the link to their main website for those that use computers. Well worth a look and nothing to lose as totally free.
App Linkhttps://play.google.com/store/apps/d...nguagetransfer

Computer link
https://www.languagetransfer.org/complete-spanish

Re: Learning the language in your host country.
 

Very true,Mikelincs,l passed GCE in French which helped with learning Spanish & I think all Grammar schools taught Latin as did some other State schools in UK.That certainly helps us understand a bit when Boris speaks to us minions.My niece taught German & French but to get promoted to Head she had to retrain as a Maths.teacher some years ago.And now languages as a school subject appears to be further down the list of priorities.Perhaps more English ,particularly spelling,could be a substitute lesson or is "Text" to be the universal favourite with us Brits.

Re: Learning the language in your host country.
 

When I was at School in the mid 1970's there were no language lessons (I did fail my 11 plus so went to a secondary modern)
Neither of my children had languages in their High Schools either (Catholic School 2000 - 2008)

I am unfortunately not proud of the fact I can't speak any other languages well. I can order food and drink and say hello etc in about 12 though (Wont go hungry)
I have never understood why items such as, tables, books, chairs and even a record should have a sex. Makes no sense, which again adds another complication.

When I worked, 80% of my time was out of the UK, the German engineers wanted to speak English because they travelled to Africa and Asia, the same with the Italians in my last job. In fact they didn't enjoy me asking what this or that was in German and Italian. They were the same for others, so it was not just me.

Now we are here in Spain Ive got to the point again, where food and drink and a few other things are not an issue. However my issue is understanding what others are saying back to me, if it deviates from my little script.
The lady in our supermarket asked me something the other day (we always say hi and how are you) but she said something I didn't catch as it was related to our shopping, when I asked her to repeat she went into English. Until then I didn't even know she could speak it.

Im using Babbel, Duolingo, a mix of basic podcasts and as many other things as I can. However Im finding it easier to learn to read and write than to talk (maybe because Ive always had manual type jobs that require eye hand co-ordination).
Local lessons from our town hall are suspended, but we are looking at private lessons more for me to listen and get pronunciation better (although my hearing in one ear is not so good after all the years in noisy factories and my dodgy London accent dont help)

Re: Learning the language in your host country.
 

You could try a private class online.

https://www.tusclasesparticulares.co...tranjeros.aspx

I took some classes last year for 13€ / hour. Teacher knew all typical English speaker problems and was very well prepared. She really resolved a lot of my doubts.

Re: Learning the language in your host country.
 

There is a lady near here who is a translator she charges about the same, so we are looking at using her.
Ive also just looked at Language Transfer and it seems quite good (I already knew about some of the stuff but I can listen to this when out walking)

Re: Learning the language in your host country.
 

This link should give you a PDF script of all the lessons in language transfer spanish
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...ZEC2SERqoXEFO2

Re: Learning the language in your host country.
 

For listening practice I found the 'Español con Juan' and 'Dreaming Spanish' youtube channels helpful.

Re: Learning the language in your host country.
 

Ive listened to the first 3 sections and found them to be quite good, I even got some right before the speaker. Although to be honest they were words I already knew.

This thread is turning out to be interesting and a good aid.

Thank you.

Re: Learning the language in your host country.
 

Yes I did French O level and I think it helped me with Spanish in that I immediately knew where to focus my efforts: verb conjugations. I remembered from French O level that once I had spent a summer holiday memorising the conjugations for maybe the 20 most popular French verbs I had pretty much cracked it as far as O level was concerned. I kept on learning other aspects of the language of course, but everything seemed to fall into place with the conjugations. I breezed through the exam without doing any revision.

Interestingly I think one of the reasons why many romance language speakers struggle with English is because they (or their education systems) put too much emphasis on studying grammar, rather than actually speaking the language. They approach learning English the same way they approach learning their own highly grammatical, latin-derived language, without realising it isn't really necessary. Most Brits aren't even taught English grammar, but they can speak it fluently. However it makes it harder for them when it comes to learning more grammatical languages.

Re: Learning the language in your host country.
 

I thought language transfer was pretty good, I had not heard of it before, I am currently learning so always on the look out for other resources, I am still doing duolingo and taking lessons as well, I don’t think duolingo on its own is enough, real lessons are definitely the way to go in my opinion particularly to learn pronunciation

I have a link to a load of books someone posted on one if the many learning Spanish Facebook pages if anyone needs it.

Re: Learning the language in your host country.
 

During our very first lesson our Hungarian language teacher drew a pyramid (to indicate the learning Hungarian process) and an upside down pyramid to describe the process of learning English. The point being that you have to learn to read & write Hungarian before proceeding up the pyramid to understanding / speaking, whereas with English they learn to hear / speak first (the easy bit) before learning to read / write (the hard bit, apparently).

We are still fighting our way up from the bottom layer of the Hungarian pyramid!

Re: Learning the language in your host country.
 

Surely every child learns to speak initially by watching, listening and mimicking. Different of course to understanding and learning the grammar etc of a language.

Re: Learning the language in your host country.
 

They do - that's why one of our Hungarian friends said the only way to learn Hungarian is to revert to early childhood! Apparently Hungarian children spend 12 years learning Hungarian grammar! The biggest issue I have (apart from the grammar, vocabulary, spelling, pronunciation, etc!) is the need to plan every phrase or sentence, primarily, but not solely, in respect of word order. No straightforward subject, verb, object here!

Re: Learning the language in your host country.
 

I myself did very little grammar at school. Which when it comes to learning Spanish from books some videos and lessons is part of the difficulty as there is an assumption that we all understand grammar of English etc. I'm sure it's the same with Spaniards learning English etc. Also I think your Hungarian friends are correct re learning like a child, problem with that is our brains have developed with our age. I don't think there is one method fits all as adults learning a new language. Certainly I think this thread helps as it opens us up to options we may not have tried. I am personally just wanting to be able to converse relatively freely with Spaniards in a day to day manner. Slowly slowly but hopefully I will achieve that. One final thing and difference between us as adults and children is confidence to actually practice properly what we learn, I for instance don't get into conversation with strangers really, I tend to just not do that other than when needs must or when I was working in the course of work. That's just my personality. My wife is the opposite and speaks to all and everyone.

Re: Learning the language in your host country.
 

Love your comment about brains developing with age. Mine has definitely regressed!
Now, where's my rattle?

Re: Learning the language in your host country.
 

Argh well for me the issue is I start from a low level so can't afford to regress too far lol

Re: Learning the language in your host country.
 

:lol:

Hungarian verb conjugation -

Definite - Indefinite?

Regular, irregular, intransitive?

Verb stem ending in S, or Z or SZ, or IK or IT or other?

Then vowel harmonise, 3 versions across all categories!
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