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Hi, We are planning to move to Spain in the near future so may I please ask a couple of questions. We would apply for the Retirement Visa, I’m over 70 my wife is 61 but doesn’t work does have a nominal private pension plus saving over £50k also we will bring her mother who is an extremely fit 93 yr old ( no medications ) with pensions plus savings my question is can my mother in law be counted as a dependent, she lives with us now, will they count all three sets of incomes into one pot and plus we will be selling our UK House £500k ish. Advice please.
My second question is will my wife and myself be able to exchange our UK driving licence for Spanish without taking any Spanish tests ?

We did previously live in Spain 2003 to 2005 so did comply with NIE and we had Spanish Driving Licence but changed them on return to UK
No doubt will have more questions later, can anyone advise of a good up to date book I could buy covering all aspects of making the move ? Thanks

Re: Just registered
 

Books get out of date very quickly - suggest you use reliable/official websites

https://www.ageinspain.org/post/moving-to-spain

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/living-in-spain

https://www.pellicerheredia.com/en/open-library/

Re: Just registered
 

Here is another Non Lucrative visa guide that will be useful:

https://www.exteriores.gob.es/Consul...lucrativa.aspx

It will explain the income and healthcare requirements.

Steve

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Yes, your mother-in-law will be counted as dependant family member on the ascending line and requires 1 x IPROM per month or 7200 euro per year. Your wife too will require 7200 euro a year. Plus you need 4 x IPROM = 28800 euro. All three of you will be covered by S1 - you and mother-in-law as state pensioners and your wife as your dependant, so no private health cover needed. Remember you need further documents such as police checks. You and your wife should be able to exchange your UK driving licence into Spanish ones, which should be done within 6 months of moving to Spain. You need medical checks at a private clinic where they carry out basic checks such as BP, sight, hearing and reaction test. All being well, your wife should get 5 years' validity and you will get between 3 and 5 years depending on test results.

Re: Just registered
 

Thanks for all that information it gives me most of the answers at this stage but may I ask another

Can my mother in law’s pensions which are guaranteed income count for her 7200 requirement for visa application, she actually receives far greater amount but not the 28000 for the main applicant she also has a good savings, do they take any saving into account when considering self sufficiency?

Re: Just registered
 

Yes it's perfect that her income is from her pensions as its proven regular income and as a dependent she only needs the €7200 per annum to qualify. Some (but not all) areas do take into account a good bank balance but I've not heard a stated amount required.

Steve

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I would like to take a moment to thank those members who have responded to my questions with really good advice, Thank you 🙏

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Hello T23
IMO go back and delete much of what to wrote about your income Etc Etc, the internet is full of scamming shysters who would be very interested in your income details.

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You might want to consider cost of medical insurance

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For visa purpose, they don't need private medical insurance as they all qualify for S1: Two of them are UK state pensioners and one is a dependant.

Re: Just registered
 

You also need to make sure you don't sell your UK property in the same Spanish tax that you move or you could face Capital Gains Tax. The other thing to be very sure about is that you are comfortable with the fact that you will be having to rely on hospitals, doctors, carers etc more than most people as your mother in law will at various points need medical attention being at such an advanced age. What is important to remember is that this will involve a lot of contact with Spanish individuals, some who might speak English some who won't and it is not their obligation to do so , simply a courtesy. So you need to be prepared for that and perhaps having to pay for a translator at times. Some folk might find doing these things stressful and frustrating - it is hard enough in UK dealing with the NHS and care for the elderly never mind Spain. My ex works as an interpreter for 112 and says it is a nightmare with British people phoning for emergencies ( especially ambulances). Half of them don't even know how to correctly say their addresses and then when the paramedics get there people are panicking and shouting in English and the paramedics can't understand anything so it often results in precious time being lost. These are things that you at least need to think about and be prepared for.

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Just for a little extra information about Carers. In Spain you are expected to look after family members and organise their daily care which could result in paying for private carers attending daily and in the worst situation having to pay for a residential home. Carers in my area cost around €20 per hour and residential home fees can be astronomical. There is not care systems in Spain like the UK provide.

Ste

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Yes. It is important to understand that the system for care for elderly is very different from UK and that the unwritten law is that the bulk of the work falls to the family. I found the whole process difficult enough in UK when dealing with my mother. Lots of phone calls and lots of time spent trying to arrange things and then filling out forms, visits to hospitals for tests etc- it was very stressful. Personally I would find it extremely hard to have tried to do the same in Spain. You can't just phone these places and start talking in English you would definitely need a translator. Of course this is simply my opinion so others will differ but if you ask me during my final years the one place I would like to be is in a familiar place with people who I understand and I feel close to home. It must be horrible being in a completely foreign atmosphere. However, different strokes for different folks.

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I don't think it is accurate to say that in Spain there are not care systems such as exist in the UK. There are most certainly domicilary carers in the public sector (in my own town they work for an arms length company set up by the Ayuntamiento called Emvipsa, which also provides cleaning services for public buildings). This link to the Junta de Andalucia's webpage about the Servicio de Ayuda a Domiclio outlines the type of services that can be provide which is pretty comprehensive, and differs from the domiciliary care typically provided by local authority Adult Social Care departments in the UK which is almost always limited to personal care only (ie help with getting up and going to bed, washing, toileting, meal provision - which given the length of carer visits means putting something in the microwave) and giving medication). When I was investigating care at home for my late father in the event that he might recover sufficiently to be able to return home from hospital, I asked Social Services what could be done to help someone who needed help with shopping, cleaning, laundry etc. and they were very clear that that would either have to be provided by the family or contracted and paid for separately by the individual or their family.

Servicio de ayuda a domicilio - Junta de Andalucía (juntadeandalucia.es)

It is true that assessments are needed of a person's needs and capabilities before any such assistance could be provided, and those together with the application process would be conducted in Spanish which could be problematic for a foreigner without a good command of Spanish. It can take a long time for assessments to be done - and the same applies in the UK. It is also true that the individual or their family would have to contribute towards the cost of any assistance granted, or pay for it in full, depending on their income level. But the same is true of care in the UK, where anyone with savings of over 23.5k must pay for domiciliary care in full. I know of people here who are, or were before their death, residents in care homes here in Spain and the staff of the home helped their families deal with the local Social Services Department to obtain financial assistance which resulted in their pension being used to contribute to the costs (with the individual being able to keep a smalll amount as pocket money) and the local authority paying the rest - again no different from the UK where people with means over a certain level have to fund their own residential care in full (and are charged considerably more than the rate the local authority pays for people whose care they are funding).

In my town over 300 people are now employed to provide this service and every day when I am out and about I see their uniformed carers accompanying their carees on walks or in the supermarket, or just sitting on benches so the old people can chat with friends and neighbours. My next door neighbour on one side has one such carer who comes twice a week to do cleaning, etc. My neighbour is not housebound and goes out either on her own (she uses a walking aid) or with her husband who lives with her and doesn't appear at all frail, goes to the hairdresser every week and her daughter lives 3 doors away on the same floor of our block of flats, so obviously people don't have to be extremely seriously disabled or without family help to qualify for some level of assistance.

Los Servicios Sociales de Vélez-Málaga destinan 11,5 millones a atender a 5.100 personas | Diario Sur

As to fees for residential care homes being astronomical, when I type in my area on this webpage to find residencias within my muncipality (I know of at least 7) it displays a message saying that the average cost of a place (obviously it would cost more for residents with complex needs like dementia) is €2,234 per month - under half what self funders are now being charged in the UK.

Residencias geriátricas: Hacemos una búsqueda personalizada por tí | inforesidencias

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Yes I know there are limited services that can be applied for but as it can take many months to get assessed and (if) any financial assistance it can result in, unfortunately, being to late. Illness can happen within days and help is needed immediately hence many private care companies available. Families cannot wait for the Spanish social security to catch up. I've been caught up in this system so I do know something about it.

Steve

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Not saying there isn't a care system nor am I saying it isn't good - just highlighting that I think it involves a lot more work and perhaps stress when you are relying on a foreign government to administer it. Plus for me it seems sad to take someone away from their home and culture and place them in somewhere very different but as I say people see things differently which is fine.

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Hi, 1sexSmith,

Did I not mention that she lived over half her years in Cyprus, Spain and Portugal, nearly forgot also a handful in Australia, and when first discussed her face lit up, ( never judge a book unless you’ve actually read it ) 🙏

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No you did not mention any of those things and you may have got different advice if you had. In future when you are seeking advice and information please include ALL relevant facts. No need for your last bracketed comment!
Steve

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Hi Tebo, I can only say your opinion was taken perhaps wrongly by me and came across as a personal slant as to our personal and family joint decisions, something we had not asked.

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An open question to all…….
Lots of news in the UK concerning the British tourists and I guess also the Brit residents now in Spain being unwanted by large groups of Spanish people, does this cause issues and are some Brits and others starting to leave, is this a good time to even think about holidaying in Spain let alone moving to Spain.
Are there any attacks going on against Tourists property ie cars or people ? It’s all a bit concerning as we’ve got bookings to Spain but no longer sure it’s going to be a safe environment to even enjoy a long holiday/ property search..

Re: Just registered
 

Someone is reading too much tabloid press. Best to hide under bed until all is over. :rofl:

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They definitely don't like the beer guzzling at 11am brigade and rightly want to bin the naff, low end tourism you see with the British in places like Benedorm (a bulldozer perhaps!) and they want to rescue the Balearic islands from tacky tourism.

No problem in this area with good quality tourism (east of Malaga) but Spain definitely needs to clean up certain other places and move to more upmarket tourism.

Re people leaving Spain, loads of Brits left around the time of Brexit and in this area, they have been replaced by other northern Europeans.

Re: Just registered
 

Lou71,
I've seen "beer guzzling" at 11am in many British Towns, cities and even villages so no need for the high horse attitude towards Benidorm!! You have probably never been to Benidorm (and you can't even spell it correctly 🙄) Benidorm is one of Spains most Visited tourist cities by millions of holidaymakers from worldwide so your humble opinion is absolutely in the minority........

Steve

Re: Just registered
 

Adding to your comments I thought that it was worthwhile stating that Benidorm is extremely popular with Spanish people

Rosemary.

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Protests are not against the Brits on Vacation. It is about the renting out of properties that were built for housing.
Today there are protests in Málaga.
https://www.publico.es/sociedad/mala...ificacion.html
Barcelona is proposing to not renew tourist licences
https://www.hosteltur.com/164187_bar...s-en-2029.html
Here in Galicia in the city of Santiago de Compostela the governing POSE trying to also reduce/remove Viviendas de Uso Turístico (VUT). https://www.eldiario.es/galicia/piso..._11475711.html. However, that plan is not going well.

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I don't doubt they guzzle beer at 11am in towns and cities across the UK and that is why they do the same while visiting Spain.

Benidorm aside (it was just one example) the Spanish are fed up with drunken British tourists and you can't blame them for wanting to bring that kind of tourism to an end. Google it and you will find numerous articles on the subject - 11am beer drinking was touched upon too.


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Re: Just registered
 

I often see Spaniards having beer or brandy before 11 am, i also see Dutch German and other European tourists drinking early , I don,'t think it is only Brits that like to drink early. I do think British drinking culture though for some is to drink to oblivion and it would seem especially when on holiday. That said i have when visiting resorts seen Germans and others doing the same. I would add i rarely drink alcohol before 8 pm maybe the odd glass of beer or wine if eating out in company for a lunch As for Benidorm not somewhere i have ever visited I too live east of Malaga have i seen drunken holiday makers or expats the answer is yes not too often but certainly I have seen and avoided such people and they haven't all been British. There are goid and bad in all walks of life all nationalities. I get that some resorts have a problem with drunkenness but then such resorts market themselves in such a way that openly encourages such drinking and behaviour so not surprising that it happens. It would seem for many locals they are now saying enough is enough and local authorities are trying to change their tourism model. I cant say i blame them but its not just British tourists causing an issue. As for the recent protests re AB&B etc.. It certainly hasn't affected how local people treat us where we live. We live in a rural village 7km inland from the coast and in the 16 years we've had our house people in our village have always been friendly welcoming and helpful to us. That includes 10 years as holiday home owners here and 5 and a half resident full time. There is one family in our street with a son who is now in his 30s he has never and i guess never will acknowledge us . Fair enough you get people in all communities that dont like or accept incomers, he is the only one in our village i have come across. A good few years ago i had driven over in my uk registered car and it got keyed down one side i guess because someone took exception to uk number plate.Maybe it was the same lad? i dont know but thats the only thing i have ever had and nothing to do with recent protests.Most Spanish people to me seem way more tolerant of people their nationality colour etc than most British people.

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:goodpost:
Thanks for putting everything into context bobd22

I've lived in Benidorm for 10 years and have enjoyed the company of Spanish people who live in my block, they are very nice friendly and helpful people and have never made me feel uncomfortable.

The beer guzzlers are generally confind to one "Brit" area which gives Benidorm a bad reputation and that area is so easily avoided.

We eat and drink mainly where the Spanish dine out and enjoy every minute living here in Benidorm.

Steve

Re: Just registered
 

​​​​​​St eve a couple of times we have rented an apartment in Fuengirola and Benalmadena which are both very British type holiday resorts im sure quite similar to Benidorm. We have stayed for a month at a time over christmas and springtime. Our house can get very cold in mid winter like many spanish village houses. So we have gone there rented in a modern apartment block with air con heating etc. When we have mentioned going there i have seen people turn their nose up or ask why etc. We have always enjoyed our winter breaks yes some areas are very brit city as i call it but there are plenty of spanish areas and nice spanish bars restaurants if one bothers to look. I take full advantage also of the fact i can go out and pay very little for an excellent full english breakfast. Its horses for courses, Spain is a vast and varied country, my view is try and enjoy the variety as much as one can. Last year our months winter break was Fistera, Galicia and i loved that just the same all be it for different reasons. Thats the beauty of living in Spain and being retired we can travel and see the variety of cultures. My sister and her partner visited us last year she had been before he hadn't and she had told him about the lovely little rural village we live in. I dont think he expected us to live in a tiny little village house with working spanish neighbours. When he got here and saw our basic little house on streets built for donkeys he said Why did you end up here? Because it suits us i said its not all like a place in the sun on tv. Live and let live so long as its within the law is my view, we are all different .

Re: Just registered
 

I will add my 2c Didnt want too, but all you seem to do is bash Brits in your posts.

I also live near Benidorm and yes there some who 'guzzle' beer early in the morrning and why not, they are on holiday. Not what you would do (nor me) but its none of my business as long as its controlled.
But Benidorm is also a major tourist destination for thousands of Spanish, German, French and Scandinavians who sometimes dont behave wonderfully.
And Benidorm is considered a major city of culture. (mind you so was Hull)
The city gives the central government over 1,800 million in taxes every year, but it only receives around 18 million back in financing...

Here you go. So tourists are bad according to you.
This from a report by BBVA (some small time company I doubt you have heard off)

BBVA Research has analysed developments in the Valencian tourism sector for a number of years, and seen the important changes that it has undergone. The sector generates around EUR 16 billion per year (15% of regional GDP) and is responsible for 290,000 jobs (15% of total employment).
Here is the rest of it.
https://www.bbvaresearch.com/en/publ...yond-benidorm/

I do however also have to point out that the Spanish are not fed up with the British, but ALL NATIONALITIES who have arrived and purchased second homes and who only visit twice a year and rent out for the rest.
To be honest in this case I think Brits are in the minority as we, as a nation have one of the poorest retirement incomes and most of us would have had trouble funding one home let alone two. In fact a huge number of Spaniards have second homes but they remain empty.

Also now Im going to be a pendant. The reason the Brits flock to Benidorm is down the SPANISH mayor of the time deciding he wanted some of that lucrative tourist money that was pouring into the Costa's, which was also pioneered by a Spanish person.
Oh yep thats right, your precious Malaga and the costa's where hoards of drunken Brits and Germans in the early and mid 70's flocked.
We had never heard of Benidorm. If you went to Spain in the 70's you went to the Costa del Sol..

I even (sadly) remember going on 18-30 holidays in the early 80's to such places as Torre del Mar, Marbella and the Mushroom place (Fungusrolla as we called it. Got that name cause there wasn't mushroom on the beach during the day.).
So what if tourists spend more on beer in two weeks than you do in a year.
Just means Spain actually needs them more than it does us who live here.

And finally Spain actually caused this problem and now it wants to end it.
I will bet you anything you like that nothing will happen long term. Yep the AirBNB thing will deflate, you wont be able to get a tourist licence for that flat you own but never visit.

They are building more than 20 new apartment blocks and hotels in Benidorm right now....maybe you would like to inform them that tourism is something they dont want or need before they waste all that money.

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:goodpost:
Very well put Barriej.......

Steve

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Apartments are for people - the hotels are for tourists. The people work in the hotels to keep the tourists happy.
the way it should be..

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@BarrieJ, I didn't say tourism is bad per se, far from it, tourism is good but I'm suggesting that the current model is no longer working (note the problems with drunks in Mallorca for example) and Spain are right to address it. They are fed up with the high volume of holiday lets and also large groups of badly behaved drunks and who can blame them? You don't believe me? Google it.

Admittedly they have partially brought it upon themselves by attracting a certain type of tourist in certain areas but they seem pretty determined to change it and I wish them luck.

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Torre del Mar? Are you sure about that, because I don't know where you would have stayed on an 18_30 holiday in the 80s. There are stiĺ only 2 hotels of any size there, the Mainake built in 2000 and the Andalucia Beach built in 2003. Other than those there are only small hostals and a lot of apartments most of which are owned by Spaniards and rented to tourists when they are not using them as their own holiday homes. I think you possibly meant Torremolinos.

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My thoughts exactly, there were no package tours in TDM back then and I'm not aware of any now.

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Lou71,

"No problem in this area with good quality tourism"

Can I ask how many bars (perhaps you call them drinking establishments) are there in your town and what time they open for start of business?

Steve

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"us who live here" also includes the Spanish themselves, so saying that "Spain actually caused this problem and now it wants to end it" is a simplistic way of talking about conflicting interests. Exactly the same problems exist in Cornwall, the Lake District, and Edinburgh and you wouldn't say the UK caused this problem.

AirBnB allowed landlords to place adverts for unlicenced apartments and not declare taxes. That has come to an end in Spain, but AirBnB is still part of the problem, they allow unlicensed tourist flats to be advertised and may not even collect tourist tax.

People who work in the area cannot afford any place to live as landlords buy up flats and convert them for tourist use. Property prices have gone through the roof and monthly rent for long term occupiers has risen to the same price as it would cost to rent a flat as a tourist. And yes, tourists also bring noise, vomit in the stairwells, etc... if you lived in a building where half the flats had been turned over to tourist use you'd be pissed off too.

If more hotels are built, tourist flat licences are not renewed so tourists go back to hotels, and AirBnB is forced to only take adverts from properly licensed tourist flats (of which hopefully there will be relatively few) then this will begin to address the problem.

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Getting back on topic:

If the MIL has ample resources of her own then it may prove difficult to claim that she is wholly dependent on you, and has been for at least the previous 12 months.
Simply that she lives with you does not automatically make her your dependent.

If she can meet the €28,800/pa financial requirement then she can apply for her own NLV

Family reunion visas only become possible after the sponsor had completed 5 years of residency.

https://www.immigrationspain.es/en/f...fication-visa/

Re: Just registered
 

Maybe it was.
I know the family holidayed in Torre del Mar in 1974 and 1976 (during the Uk heatwave). As I still have the slides from the holiday and the 8mm film somewhere (Im not joking)....
When you are 18 and go on holiday with a rowdy bunch, the location never seems to be important.
Dont think it was an 'official' club 18-30 anyway as it was all organised by someone we knew who worked at Beechams in Brentford...

But anyway. Memories eh...

Re: Just registered
 

I think he/she meant Tossa de Mar, right next door to LLoret de Mar - very popular places in the 70's and 80's with the brits.