Rosemary

In an article I read recently, middle class was defined as any household earning 40,000 gbp per annum and this accounts for a considerable section of the nation. Another more obvious one is the old fashioned term of white/blue collar workers but with the explosive increase of white collar work then again the middle class has had a meteoric rise. A recent survey, cannot remember where, asked more than 20,000 people what class they were and less than 30% responded with working class.
My definition is purely personal, my Dad was a fitter, I was an electrician even though I ended my career as an engineer I was still working class. One of my closest friends although much older than me was the son of a bank manager, he became senior engineer at the BBC and was middle class. there was a vast difference between us and he was the ultimate gentile middle class person who it was an honour for me to have known.

Graham

bil

Well, the definitions are not quite so clearly defined. In the UK, I would have been working class by profession, middle class by property and aspirations.

Given that the 'qualifications' for class are more blurred still, I'd go with aspirations.

If you win the lottery and piss it up the wall, you are deffo working class, if you would invest a big chunk of it and make it work for you, you are middle class.

If you have aspirations to improve your life for you and your children, then you are also middle class.

Domino

but surely working class people can have aspirations to improve the life of their children - do they immediately jump up to middle class because of that aspiration, or are they just "jumped up" ? ?

bil

I said, the old divisions are becoming blurred, and it isn't possible to be quite so certain about it. In the past, if you were working class, it didn't matter how aspirational you might be the chances of getting your children up a class was rare enough, but yourself? Almost never.

snikpoh

Out of interest, we have;

Working class
then
Middle Class

what's next? How are they defined? Is it by wealth, by title or what?

Is the phrase 'Upper Class', 'High Class', TOF's ???

Dick Dasterdly

Most of the replies seem to indicate as I believe myself that it doesn't really exist anymore in the original sense and is little more than a common expression used by certain sections of the community to whinge or by politicians to win votes.

To get back to topic it appears the US Govt has agreed their next course of action regarding their ever increasing debt.
The only problem is it that appears to please no one and leaves the country sinking even further into the mire.

bil

OK, Vickie Pollard in Little Britain (and her ilk.) Working class or Middle class?

Captain Mannering types. Middle or working?

Lord & Lady ****knuckle?

The boundaries may be blurred, but they do exist. Britain is still very class ridden in its own way.

Personally I think all three are classical stereotypes.

Keith

Why is it that most of us are over their heads in debt but think that our governments should not.

We expect to buy everything as cheaply as possible but blame the Chinese for taking over the manufacturing jobs that were once upon a time in our own countries. Crazy world we have made for ourselves and future generations.

bil

I think most of us can tolerate debt as long as it is feasible to pay it off. Plus, we pay politicos big bucks to get it right, not sell us down the river.

anonimouse

Two classes now.....Haves and Have not's

jackytoo

Not exactly new is it.

Domino

the up side is the Chinese are using slave and supposedly convicted criminal labour at peanuts wages in their manufacturing processes the down side is they are paying a fortune for materials and shipping that are rising up through the roof. This is increasing massively the cost of items which are then being sold to us.

It is their cornering markets for many materials that is causing increased criminal activity back in Europe. i.e. Copper pipes and cabling being ripped out of houses faster than its being installed. Copper mains and data cables being pulled out of the ground whilst still connected - ISTR includes railway overhead and signalling cables. Lead being ripped off roofs of churches and commercial buildings.

I should imagine many people are asking how much longer the Chinese are able to maintain this momentum. If\When it stops we will have no manufacturing industries left, all pulled down to make curry houses.

Our governments are so scared of the people controlling the money and commodities markets they cannot even get them to admit they were the ones who cocked it all up in 1997. They still allow them to take massive bonuses whilst making huge profits for handling our pension funds, whilst telling us it is our fault said funds "haven't performed well lately". (the funds they decided we should invest in!)

and people wonder why it seems like a good idea to go to spain, settle on a beach in the warm and pull the blanket over their heads.

Domino

this is true, we enter into a 25 year mortgage when buying a house in the hope that we will be able to get to the end of track and actually make a profit. along the way we pay the politicos moderate sums to allow them to "retire" into other jobs that pay a fortune which we are paying for.

if the surgeon gets it wrong they bury you.
if you get it wrong you live in penury for the rest of your life

Dick Dasterdly

As I said the class structure does not really exist anymore except in the minds of those who want or need it to exist.

Anonymouse describes todays world a little more appropriately as the haves and the have nots, however even with the best will in the world, that will inevitably always be the case.

For instance take fifty haves and fifty have nots and redistribute their common wealth evenly.

Within a relatively short time span I'm pretty certain it would be possible to reclassify the vast majority back into their original have and have not categories.

HBG

Zapatero has just cancelled his August holiday to deal with the Spanish debt level which, like Italy's, is now at danger levels. Either Italy or Spain are far too big to bail out. The UK doesn't have anyone to bail it out.

We won't have to worry about the haves and have nots in the near future, we'll all be skint.