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Integrators vs. colonisers
Hi everyone
This thread may not be for everyone, but some may enjoy it. I've been doing a bit of social theorising and have come up with two types of "British in Spain". I did this because there is often antagonism on this forum between these two ways of thinking. I certainly know of posters I normally agree with and those I normally disagree with For anyone who knows it, this is a bit like the "bears" vs "bulls" on the house pricecrash forum. These are groups of characteristics which are general in nature. No one person is met to fit 100% and please noone take offence :) 1. The integrators Love Spain becuase it is Spanish. Want to speak/learn Spanish like a native, send their kids to Spanish school, not so bothered about watching UK TV. Have/want Spanish friends, colleagues and enthusiastic about Spanish culture, food, way of life etc. May look down their noses at "those terrible British tourists/expats" 2. The colonisers Love Spain because it suits their lifestyle and recognise the importance of British people to the local economy. Not so interested in "living like the Spanish" and don't identify much with Spanish people. May think Spain is "inferior" to the UK in certain aspects or resent Spaniards for not appreciating them. Think Spanish food, education and healthcare is sub-standard. Will send children to international school if budget allows Does anyone recognise these or are they absolute nonsense? Thanks cricketman |
Re: Integrators vs. colonisers
Originally Posted by cricketman
(Post 7911578)
Hi everyone
This thread may not be for everyone, but some may enjoy it. I've been doing a bit of social theorising and have come up with two types of "British in Spain". I did this because there is often antagonism on this forum between these two ways of thinking. I certainly know of posters I normally agree with and those I normally disagree with For anyone who knows it, this is a bit like the "bears" vs "bulls" on the house pricecrash forum. These are groups of characteristics which are general in nature. No one person is met to fit 100% and please noone take offence :) 1. The integrators Love Spain becuase it is Spanish. Want to speak/learn Spanish like a native, send their kids to Spanish school, not so bothered about watching UK TV. Have/want Spanish friends, colleagues and enthusiastic about Spanish culture, food, way of life etc. May look down their noses at "those terrible British tourists/expats" 2. The colonisers Love Spain because it suits their lifestyle and recognise the importance of British people to the local economy. Not so interested in "living like the Spanish" and don't identify much with Spanish people. May think Spain is "inferior" to the UK in certain aspects or resent Spaniards for not appreciating them. Think Spanish food, education and healthcare is sub-standard. Will send children to international school if budget allows Does anyone recognise these or are they absolute nonsense? Thanks cricketman I think the non-integrators(?) almost exclusively live on the costas and consequently have a much wider variety of international eateries to choose from. Therefore they can eat Spanish food as and when they choose instead of having to eat it because there is no other choice. In that scenario I think they are less likely to get sick of Spanish food and hold it in a higher regard than those of us who have to eat it by force. (I'm not sure many will admit to regarding Spain as inferior to the UK, but I don't think you are wrong.) |
Re: Integrators vs. colonisers
Originally Posted by cricketman
(Post 7911578)
Hi everyone
This thread may not be for everyone, but some may enjoy it. I've been doing a bit of social theorising and have come up with two types of "British in Spain". I did this because there is often antagonism on this forum between these two ways of thinking. I certainly know of posters I normally agree with and those I normally disagree with For anyone who knows it, this is a bit like the "bears" vs "bulls" on the house pricecrash forum. These are groups of characteristics which are general in nature. No one person is met to fit 100% and please noone take offence :) 1. The integrators Love Spain becuase it is Spanish. Want to speak/learn Spanish like a native, send their kids to Spanish school, not so bothered about watching UK TV. Have/want Spanish friends, colleagues and enthusiastic about Spanish culture, food, way of life etc. May look down their noses at "those terrible British tourists/expats" 2. The colonisers Love Spain because it suits their lifestyle and recognise the importance of British people to the local economy. Not so interested in "living like the Spanish" and don't identify much with Spanish people. May think Spain is "inferior" to the UK in certain aspects or resent Spaniards for not appreciating them. Think Spanish food, education and healthcare is sub-standard. Will send children to international school if budget allows Does anyone recognise these or are they absolute nonsense? Thanks cricketman Number 1 for me and im loving it.:thumbsup: |
Re: Integrators vs. colonisers
Originally Posted by cricketman
(Post 7911578)
Hi everyone
This thread may not be for everyone, but some may enjoy it. I've been doing a bit of social theorising and have come up with two types of "British in Spain". I did this because there is often antagonism on this forum between these two ways of thinking. I certainly know of posters I normally agree with and those I normally disagree with For anyone who knows it, this is a bit like the "bears" vs "bulls" on the house pricecrash forum. These are groups of characteristics which are general in nature. No one person is met to fit 100% and please noone take offence :) 1. The integrators Love Spain becuase it is Spanish. Want to speak/learn Spanish like a native, send their kids to Spanish school, not so bothered about watching UK TV. Have/want Spanish friends, colleagues and enthusiastic about Spanish culture, food, way of life etc. May look down their noses at "those terrible British tourists/expats" 2. The colonisers Love Spain because it suits their lifestyle and recognise the importance of British people to the local economy. Not so interested in "living like the Spanish" and don't identify much with Spanish people. May think Spain is "inferior" to the UK in certain aspects or resent Spaniards for not appreciating them. Think Spanish food, education and healthcare is sub-standard. Will send children to international school if budget allows Does anyone recognise these or are they absolute nonsense? Thanks cricketman Nice to go for tapas and a good Spanish wine, but also graeat to have a Sunday roast, complete with mint sauce. Great to have callos or fabada, but equally good to have fish and chips or a good English breakfast. Lovely to sit on a terrace and read the Marca or ABC, but also enjoy the British press. Nice to go to a family gathering with all that it entails, but also nice to see the a*se end of them. That is the advantage of knowing the 2 ways of life, pick what suits at the time. |
Re: Integrators vs. colonisers
Originally Posted by JLFS
(Post 7911632)
What about the 3rd type, which you seem to have forgotten, the ones who pick the best of both worlds, like us.
Nice to go for tapas and a good Spanish wine, but also graeat to have a Sunday roast, complete with mint sauce. Great to have callos or fabada, but equally good to have fish and chips or a good English breakfast. Lovely to sit on a terrace and read the Marca or ABC, but also enjoy the British press. Nice to go to a family gathering with all that it entails, but also nice to see the a*se end of them. That is the advantage of knowing the 2 ways of life, pick what suits at the time. Of course we're all individuals, so you can't draw hard lines. Someone you may describe as a coloniser - always criticises Spanish ways, always thinks British ways are better - may well speak better Spanish than you or I,and send their kids to the local state school. Interesting thread - hope it doesn't descend into a slanging match. |
Re: Integrators vs. colonisers
Originally Posted by Veleta
(Post 7911618)
I agree with you, but with one small alteration.
I think the non-integrators(?) almost exclusively live on the costas and consequently have a much wider variety of international eateries to choose from. Therefore they can eat Spanish food as and when they choose instead of having to eat it because there is no other choice. In that scenario I think they are less likely to get sick of Spanish food and hold it in a higher regard than those of us who have to eat it by force. (I'm not sure many will admit to regarding Spain as inferior to the UK, but I don't think you are wrong.) Did you eat out every day when you lived in the UK ? We cook our own food mainly so eat what we want, we are past the honeymoon stage of living in Spain like tourists and only eat out now and again. |
Re: Integrators vs. colonisers
Originally Posted by jdr
(Post 7911666)
Bit of a sweeping statement there.
Did you eat out every day when you lived in the UK ? We cook our own food mainly so eat what we want, we are past the honeymoon stage of living in Spain like tourists and only eat out now and again. Away from the costas neither the restaurants nor the supermarkets are very "international". It is very difficult to cook an "international" dish based on ingredients found in the supermarkets here. Or, as I often find, they'll make half-hearted attempt at stocking international ingredients and I can make HALF a curry dish, or HALF a chinese dish as long as I don't mind that the other half of the ingredients are missing. |
Re: Integrators vs. colonisers
Originally Posted by JLFS
(Post 7911632)
What about the 3rd type, which you seem to have forgotten, the ones who pick the best of both worlds, like us.
Nice to go for tapas and a good Spanish wine, but also graeat to have a Sunday roast, complete with mint sauce. Great to have callos or fabada, but equally good to have fish and chips or a good English breakfast. Lovely to sit on a terrace and read the Marca or ABC, but also enjoy the British press. Nice to go to a family gathering with all that it entails, but also nice to see the a*se end of them. That is the advantage of knowing the 2 ways of life, pick what suits at the time. 3. The multicultural pragmatists Love Spain because they can live how they want to live, picking and choosing the best of Spanish, British and other international culture that suits them. Not so worried about traditional values or fitting in with the locals or expats. Want to pick the "best tool for the job" rather than believing in an idealised way of living :) Hows that? |
Re: Integrators vs. colonisers
Originally Posted by cricketman
(Post 7911578)
Hi everyone
This thread may not be for everyone, but some may enjoy it. I've been doing a bit of social theorising and have come up with two types of "British in Spain". I did this because there is often antagonism on this forum between these two ways of thinking. I certainly know of posters I normally agree with and those I normally disagree with For anyone who knows it, this is a bit like the "bears" vs "bulls" on the house pricecrash forum. These are groups of characteristics which are general in nature. No one person is met to fit 100% and please noone take offence :) 1. The integrators Love Spain becuase it is Spanish. Want to speak/learn Spanish like a native, send their kids to Spanish school, not so bothered about watching UK TV. Have/want Spanish friends, colleagues and enthusiastic about Spanish culture, food, way of life etc. May look down their noses at "those terrible British tourists/expats" 2. The colonisers Love Spain because it suits their lifestyle and recognise the importance of British people to the local economy. Not so interested in "living like the Spanish" and don't identify much with Spanish people. May think Spain is "inferior" to the UK in certain aspects or resent Spaniards for not appreciating them. Think Spanish food, education and healthcare is sub-standard. Will send children to international school if budget allows Does anyone recognise these or are they absolute nonsense? Thanks cricketman I see it this way, when I lived in the UK, I adapted to the "British way of life," but that did not stop my mum cooking tortilla or caldo, or us speaking Spanish at home (when we felt like). But it did not stop her making cottage pie. It did not stop them mixing with the EXpat Spanish community, or buying Spanish food when the could get hold of it. It did not stop them being interested in the events, sporting and political and cultural that were going on in Spain. Moving to a different country is not like having a leg amputated, like it has gone forever and no part of it can be used again. It is a compromise, live as an individual, eat in a Greek when you feel like it, watch a flamenco show if you want, still support your British footy team. That is the wise way. You dont have to drop your Brit mates, just cos you live in Spain, it does not mean that you look down on the Spanish and the way of life here. Why does is have to be black or white, a little in between is the way forward. |
Re: Integrators vs. colonisers
Originally Posted by cricketman
(Post 7911708)
Nice idea by JLFS and steviedeluxe. Just thinking what the third group could be called, maybe...
3. The multicultural pragmatists Love Spain because they can live how they want to live, picking and choosing the best of Spanish, British and other international culture that suits them. Not so worried about traditional values or fitting in with the locals or expats. Want to pick the "best tool for the job" rather than believing in an idealised way of living :) Hows that? How about calling us INDIVIDUALS, nothing more, nothing less. I lived as an individual in the UK, why not carry on doing it here??? Idealised way of living?????????:unsure: What is that |
Re: Integrators vs. colonisers
I have a British friend. He is integrated in the fact that he reads El Pais, AS, watches Spanish tv, has Spanish friends, drinks fino etc
However he hates Spanish food, won´t touch a chorizo, turns his nose up at tapas, and has a fit if he´s offered seafood. He goes to Supersol and gets all his marmite, chedder, gravy, chips, shepherd´s pie etc. Fair play to him |
Re: Integrators vs. colonisers
Originally Posted by JLFS
(Post 7911727)
How about calling us INDIVIDUALS, nothing more, nothing less. I lived as an individual in the UK, why not carry one doing it here???
Idealised way of living?????????:unsure: What is that As you've said before even using the terms "Spanish" and "British" is misleading and over-generalised because we all have such different lives. However, our brains are simple and need simple terms to help understand the world. The intelligent among us with hopefully then put those terms to one side when meeting someone for the first time and treat them as an individual first and foremost. |
Re: Integrators vs. colonisers
Im afraid I'm stuck somewhere in the middle of those two groups if I was forced to analyse it.
Love Spain because it suits my lifestyle but I dont think Spains inferior and I watch UK TV. :D |
Re: Integrators vs. colonisers
Originally Posted by goaty
(Post 7911732)
I have a British friend. He is integrated in the fact that he reads El Pais, AS, watches Spanish tv, has Spanish friends, drinks fino etc
However he hates Spanish food, won´t touch a chorizo, turns his nose up at tapas, and has a fit if he´s offered seafood. He goes to Supersol and gets all his marmite, chedder, gravy, chips, shepherd´s pie etc. Fair play to him Hola vecino! They sell marmite and cheddar cheese in Supersol? This has been quite a revelation for me!! |
Re: Integrators vs. colonisers
Originally Posted by Mitzyboy
(Post 7911748)
Im afraid I'm stuck somewhere in the middle of those two groups if I was forced to analyse it.
Love Spain because it suits my lifestyle but I dont think Spains inferior and I watch UK TV. :D |
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