Initial questions about moving to Spain
 

Hi all

I am new to the Spain Forum but not new to moving abroad. I lived in Malta for a short spell last year and prior to that lived in the Scotland and Australia. I now live in England.

I am very interested in moving to Spain, the Madrid area to be exact. I have been looking through these threads and researching online prices of rental properties etc. So far the only site that seems pretty good is idealista.com, is this a reputable site? Is renting a simple process in Spain?

Anyway I am currently a Paralegal at a very good law firm however I moved to Malta for the hopes of having an easier life all round. I have a husband and two year old son and unfortunately Malta didn't offer what we had hoped so we returned to the UK. I am thinking about doing a CELTA or TEFL course and possibly teaching English in Spain and I heard Madrid is the best place to start. My husband writes so can pick up and go anyway.

My concerns are I do not want to make the same mistake again and make the move to Madrid and encounter the same problems we had in Malta. The problems we had in Malta were not ones that could have been discovered on holiday, it was only when living and working there did it become apparent. So I thought I would ask you all for advice.

As I said I have a two year old son and I obviously am concerned with schooling. I wouldn't mind at all for him to learn Spanish as I would definitely be doing the same. I just wanted to know what people thought about schooling in Spain?

As I said I have a good job in the UK but it is stressful and I work 40 hours per week and hardly get to see my son. I have no benefits to my job and the pay is not particularly great for the work I do. Ideally I am looking for an easier/less stressful life and I think TEFL might be able to give me that. Does my plan sound doable?

Thanks

Re: Initial questions about moving to Spain
 

:welcome:

I'm afraid that you are unlikely to get much in the way of a positive response due to the dire employment situation in Spain, unfortunately for you there are many, many others all looking to do the same as you, and many of them will have the added advantage of being fluent in Spanish. You would have to get a contracted job, or be self employed to get into the Spanish healthcare system. The self employed route would cost you something like €260 a month as an autonomo, otherwise it's private healthcare. To become a resident you would have to show a certain income level, and prove you had healthcare provisions, and you would need to become a resident to get your child into school. Spanish state schools are very good, and your child would very quickly pick up the language.

Re: Initial questions about moving to Spain
 

If you have a good job in the UK then hang onto it. Keep your dream alive by learning Spanish in the UK. Do your TEFL in the UK. Arm yourself with as much as you can then consider moving. Now is probably not the best time.

Re: Initial questions about moving to Spain
 

Thank you for your quick response.

I am somewhat confused as from what I could see Madrid is inundated with TEFL jobs, so I thought it might be a good place to start. I do realise that Spain as a whole is not in great shape financially but I would be looking for work before I made the move so as not to leave the job I currently have.

Good to hear about the schools being recommended though.

Re: Initial questions about moving to Spain
 

It's also inundated with people looking for just that sort of job.

Re: Initial questions about moving to Spain
 

Is the situation in Spain likely to get any better in the near future then? I of course would look into learning some Spanish before I made the move, I am tied here until at least March next year anyway. I did plan on doing TEFL in the UK as I could fit it around my job.

Re: Initial questions about moving to Spain
 

Unemployment is still rising in Spain, so certainly not the best time to be looking to move. You have to realise that, unlike the UK, Spain has no benefit safety net for people.

Re: Initial questions about moving to Spain
 

Speaking of the healthcare system, how is the Spanish healthcare?

Re: Initial questions about moving to Spain
 

Very good..

Re: Initial questions about moving to Spain
 

Hi,
As someone who has worked as an English teacher in Madrid, and keep in touch with others who are still there, I'd like to add my comments.
I HAVE never known anyone who moved to that city to find work in the teaching English field, to fail to do so. Even in previous years it's been the best place (and best paid ) in Spain to do this type of work - Barcelona isn't as good as many expats are attracted by living next to the sea.
If you look at this site you will see that freelance and professional teachers typically charge 30-35 euros per class in Madrid (other parts of Spain the figure is far less)
http://www.madridteacher.com/
That's the good news. I am also told on a regular basis by my teacher contacts there that they have normally have more than enough work than they can cope with. For some reasons why it's an in-demand skill in Spain, you can read this :- Why is Spain experiencing an English language boom?
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics...-language-boom

Now for some of the bad news. Firstly, the same teachers who boast of being busy, also complain of the high combined tax-and-autonomo fees. Secondly, many will not have paid classes at this time of year (the market picks up again towards the end of september) although many take the opportunity to work a few weeks at language schools in the UK and Ireland. Lastly, don't assume the life will be less stressful. You will often have lessons situated far apart and at different times (if you get a chance of block business classes in one location snap their hands off) and you also have to be very wary of national/local holidays. A good week of classes on each of 5 days can be followed by just 3 days of classes the following week. You will also need a decent level of Spanish if you are travelling from site to site (not all receptionists and especially security guards will have brilliant English)

The idea mooted above, of starting off teaching English in the UK, and building up some experience, may be the best solution. If you go out without experience, you may get a job in a language school, which isn't so bad if you can wrangle a contract, but the pay levels will be a lot less. And you must still be able to prove to the authorities that you have enough money to last at least a year before you can get your NIE and residency permission - the days of acting "sin papeles" eg working black are more or less over, and you won't get company work without being legit.

Good luck ! :thumbup:

Re: Initial questions about moving to Spain
 

If you think that life will be less stressful in Madrid than working and living in Salisbury then I sorry, but you are crazy!

Madrid is the most stressful place in Spain. People work very hard, certainly more than 40 hours per week on average, plus the often long commute. It is a big city with big traffic problems, high prices, lots of unempolyment, bad pollution etc

There may be some TEFL work but it will be badly paid, I doubt you could afford to support a family on it

Spanish healthcare is very good, but there are all kids of cuts happening at the moment

Spanish state education is very bad, unless you happen to live next to a good state school - of which there are not many in Madrid unless you were to live in an expensive neighbourhood (like London). On a TEFL you could not afford to send your child to a private school unless your husband earns very well

Yes Idealista is a good site. The biggest problem with Idealista is you have no idea how good or bad a neighbourhood is before you go and see it, and even then you dont really know until you have lived there a while

Basically like all cities, the rich live well in Madrid and the poor live badly. I would think you would need to earn maybe 70,000 euros in Madrid to live a half decent standard of life with a family

Re: Initial questions about moving to Spain
 

You said that "Malta didn't offer what we had hoped" What was it that you had hoped for that you feel Spain could provide?

Re: Initial questions about moving to Spain
 

Intriguing ain't it? ;) I'm amazed at the people that join the forum, seemingly intelligent people with good well paid jobs in UK, that want to move to Spain and expect to find equally well paid jobs in Spain without any knowledge of Spanish or Spain in general. Do they not know there is 27% unemployment? We have people that have tried Australia or wherever, didn't like that, it's almost as if they have picked another country out of the hat. :confused: I have just been reading of the one hundred thousand Spanish that have moved to UK, all desperate to try and find work.
http://elpais.com/elpais/2013/07/18/...32_461625.html
They'd kill for a job like to OP has, better than washing dishes that a lot end up doing.

Re: Initial questions about moving to Spain
 

Thanks for all the replies so far. As far as what Malta didn't offer, to be honest it is a bit behind the times. Although there were jobs there, most were minimum wage and the cost of living was much higher than I had initially thought. Expats have to pay much more for utilities, rent etc. Food costs are huge and the quality is poor. We became I'll quite often due to this. When living in Malta it became apparent that it wouldn't be a place to stay long term, a lot of expats I met stayed for a few years then moved on or back to the UK. We also chose Malta as I had lived there previously when I was a teenager and initially the plan had been for both our mothers to come with us and retire. His mum backed out at the last minute and my mum hated Malta and wanted to go back to Scotland. So it just didn't work out. Spain is definitely more modernised, is much bigger thus has more to offer, location in Europe is great, great weather, beautiful country and Spanish is a language which is very useful so would intend to learn it. I think it could offer me a more relaxing lifestyle as I don't intend to be working in an office there, in fact I am looking for a completely different career.

I am aware of the unemployment situation in Spain and I am not assuming I will get an equally high paying job either. This is why I am testing the waters, asking questions etc. I have a family so I wouldn't just drop everything and go, I am trying to better my prospects here so I can give myself the best chance of securing good employment.

I for one loved Australia and would return in a shot if I could but visas etc are difficult to obtain. I moved back to the UK with my family as I was under 16 and had no choice.

Re: Initial questions about moving to Spain
 

I doubt that your experience of Malta would be any different in any southern European country. There may be opportunities in some of Italy's larger, northern cities - but frying pans and fires comes to mind.

Re: Initial questions about moving to Spain
 

There are currently 1161 jobs advertised on the Local site that mainly target English speakers http://www.thelocal.es/
You can also search on Twitter for "Thinkspain jobs" for a variety of jobs on the coast. Obviously there will be stiff competition for those jobs you would have thought - unless everyone's been put off from applying!
There's a very good article here on how to find work in Spain, specifically in Madrid, by Pierre Waters - who found work in Madrid and helped several fellow students also to find work.
http://moving2madrid.com/how-to-find-a-job-in-spain/
I will stress that if you are thinking of the teaching English route, then best to build up some experience before you go.

Re: Initial questions about moving to Spain
 

...and don't forget that a lot of those advertised jobs don't exist...they just want your money:(

Re: Initial questions about moving to Spain
 

Reminds me of El Follonero in a programme some time back, the job center in Madrid had just 35 jobs on offer, Infojobs had 6,000! You mean they aren't real jobs? :rofl:

Re: Initial questions about moving to Spain
 

Since when do the jobs advertised in a job centre reflect the real jobs being advertised in the total economy?
But hey, every time Zara makes a sale, 100 Montaditos opens up or you're on a fully booked plane landing at a Spanish airport, remember the people there aren't really working, because we're told so on a talkboard! :rofl:

Re: Initial questions about moving to Spain
 

To be fair to steviedeluxe, those jobs look legitimate to me

For most of them you must be fluent in English and Spanish, have good experience, probably a degree and perhaps another European language

So they are not for you average expat

And of course, most will have a salary of 800-1200 euros per month

Re: Initial questions about moving to Spain
 

I am intrigued as to why a paralegal would want to give up a good job to once again start again.
what was it about Malta that sent you back home?
if it was the "jobs for the Maltese" attitude then sorry you can say the same will happen in Spain - a country where you will find petrol pump attendants with 2 or 3 degrees. Where same people are leaving in droves to Northern Europe for jobs, spending good money beforehand on language training.
or was there something more subtle and deep down??

As a paralegal you will not be able to get a similar job here because the laws are different and although the EU says jobs should be open to all - you need the local experience, which will be hard to find, along with the language.
TEFL is generally seen as a backpackers hideaway, here for 6m then gone. Not many stay long, hence the continual adverts for them.

there are various international recruitment agencies in Spain, such as Hays, Adecco, Michael Page who advertise but they will still want a certain level of local language.
But that is the same in any part of Europe and the International scene, where people move from one job to another job in another country.

Interested in what you OH feels about all this, each move must be costing you money that becomes lost forever.
is it that you just have a round bum and can't settle or is there some other reason :confused:

Re: Initial questions about moving to Spain
 

I found our place to rent on Idelista, but as soon as you arrive you will find more, very much I would say go and talk to people, visit some agents, some want to do it legally sometimes its better not too if your just short term.

Just a quickie, This may sound silly, but TEFL do you have to speak Spanish, or do you just teach English without any Spanish.

A friend of mine is wanting to do this in Algerciras but speaks no Spanish, but he is there looking for that work, I did not want to sound stupid to ask him, so I would feel better asking it here.,

Re: Initial questions about moving to Spain
 

It's possible to teach English, even to absolute beginners, without knowing any of the learner's language - indeed this was demonstrated to us on our course.
However I would argue that there are 2 main reasons why you should learn the local language. One is practical - how are you going to arrange appointments, get past security etc. if you don't speak Spanish? The second is that how can you sell yourself as a teacher of languages, if you're unable to pick up the one around you? It may be just me, but it seems a very poor demonstration of your lack of ability.

Re: Initial questions about moving to Spain
 

I still don't understand, Simply can does TEFL mean teaching knowing only English ?

Re: Initial questions about moving to Spain
 

I thought I'd already answered this! Yes, it's possible, but I (and some others, not all) would not recommend it. Having said that, there are some academies and schools who try and enforce a total "everything spoken in English" environment.

Re: Initial questions about moving to Spain
 

ok cool, so basically anyone who can speak English and is able to teach without a exam can do it, its just I see it rewarded usually with a high wage which never made sense to me, seems a easy life to TEFL.

thanks