"How Spain exploits young Workers"
 

http://www.thelocal.es/20140410/comp...h-exploitation

An email sent by mistake to two young job candidates by the employers who had just interviewed them has exposed the 'work for free' philosophy of corporate Spain and taken Twitter by storm.

Just three hours after being interviewed for an internship at tourism marketing company Innwise, Spanish jobseeker Alejandro received an email from the potential employer.

It wasn’t meant for him as he would soon find out.

“It’ll be harder to get the one from Toledo on board for €400 than the young kid for free.

“I’d try for free (or maximum €200 for part time) with Alejandro and €400 for César.”

Angered by what he’d just read, Alejandro tweeted the email gaffe, spurring an onslaught of retweets which quickly became a trending topic under #becariopipiolin (#internkid).

“It’s a true X-ray of (Spain’s) current corporate world,” wrote one commentator.

“There is work, they just don’t want to pay, even if it’s badly. It’s an utter disgrace.”

With their reputation taking a virtual battering, Innwise CEO Jordi Estalella called the two disgruntled job candidates to apologize.

“He told me it was nothing personal and that he was really sorry,” Alejandro remarked.

“I told him I felt lucky to not have ended up there.”

Estalella has since told the Spanish press that “there’s no one at the company who doesn’t get paid” and that it was just “some deplorable correspondence between two guys”.

The person responsible for the unfortunate email is said to be “distraught” and “offered up his job” to his superiors.

Despite Spain’s large number of university graduates, the country’s unemployment rate (under 26s) currently stands at an alarming 57 percent.

Desperate to get their foot in the door, many young jobseekers take on unpaid office work as interns in the hope of gaining a fixed position or at least some much sought-after work experience.

It’s important to remember that 576,900 Spaniards, one in ten jobseekers, have never worked.

The disgust and anger voiced by hundreds of people in response to Innwise’s email gaffe is a reflection of how Spanish society has grown tired of the deeply rooted culture of exploitation, fuelled largely by the excuse of ‘la crisis’.

Re: "How Spain exploits young Workers"
 

Yes this is pretty much how it is. My wife has a degree in law from a top Spanish university and a Masters in law from a UK university, but she won't go near law as a profession in Spain, since it inevitably involves working for 2 years as an intern with little or no pay, and with no guarantee of employment afterwards. The only people entering the profession have money, enchufe, or are lucky enough to get taken on by one of the few reputable companies.

The problem stems from Spanish employment law (which they are slowly changing). If you are more than 2 years with a company that company has to award you a contrato indefinido, which guarantees lots of employment rights and is very expensive for the employer. Up until then the company can get away with offering temporary contracts that offer no job security and allow the employer to lay people off at no notice, and with no justification, before they have spent 2 years with them. So many Spanish people end up with agencies like Manpower and Randstad moving from one trabajo basura to the next, staying on dire wages and with no hope of finding settled employment. It's not surprising so many stay living with their parents well into their 30s. Often they can only afford somewhere when they get married, and money suddenly appears from somewhere to help them buy a house.

Re: "How Spain exploits young Workers"
 

I guess my sister in-law and father-in-law before her must have been very lucky then

She has worked for very good law companies in Oviedo, Madrid and Barcelona, and currently works for Ernst and Young for a very good salary

The cream always rises to the top, even in Spain.

Don't let your wife give up before she has even started for Christ sake!

Re: "How Spain exploits young Workers"
 

I´m not sure how this is news?
Young workers have been "exploited" in most countries for decades. Spain is no different.
I know of many friends in the UK that were "taken on" for apprenticeships only to be "let go" at the end of it and replaced by a new apprentice.
The salary they were earning was far below what would now be considered the minimum wage.
My first job in central London barely covered my tube travel to and from work, and that included central London weighting, which in itself was more than my basic salary.
However, my friends completed their training allowing them to go onto better things. One now runs his own company on the back of the training he was given. So quite how you measure what he earned whilst training is very debatable.
I too run my own business on the back of the training I was given.
My attitude is you can sit and sulk about it as the world owes you a living or, knuckle down, take what shit is thrown at you, and take from it what ever you can!
Too many people seem to think they should be using the latest iphone, buying their fast car and first house on the basis they´ve spent 3-4 yrs partying whilst getting a degree!
Welcome to the real world!

Re: "How Spain exploits young Workers"
 

You really do make some great comments.

Yes your lot are unusual, for a start not many women of your mother in laws age worked when they had children.

Also not many Spanish couples get in the region of 7k (I think that was the latest figure you published) a month pension, and they think that is should be more, as you also stated.

I knew the crocodile tears would not last long. Welcome back to the cricketman of old, the one we know, the empathy you showed to the unfortunate never seemed quite genuine anyway.


Welcome back.:thumbsup:

Re: "How Spain exploits young Workers"
 

Yes, this happens everywhere (there are loads of interns employed by high earning law and fashion companies in London for instance), but does that make it right?
I take your point though - in business we often have to start out losing money before (hopefully) making profits. But "hired labour" should be just that - "hired labour". By all means reduce wages if conditions are tight, but end of the day you should try and live by the maxim " a fair day's work, for a fair day's pay"

Re: "How Spain exploits young Workers"
 

No Stevie, it doesn´t make it right.
It´s a mode of practice that has gone on for years and I can´t see it changing anytime soon. I do believe the minimum wage was designed to help though.
I was just trying to raise the point how this really isn´t any news as it´s nothing new. Also how peoples expectations when first entering the work place are often misplaced.

Re: "How Spain exploits young Workers"
 

OK Chopera's wife should just give up then. That is a much better attitude :thumbsup:

All I am saying is that it isnt impossible. Nobody in my family had enchufe or bought their way into any position.

I hired somebody for my business a few months ago. I received 150 CVs and all but 4 were absolute rubbish. They didnt even send me what I asked for in the job advert. Then when I interviewed the top 4, their "native" level English was terrible. I had to hire a foreigner in the end.

My Spanish extended family have all done very well, but maybe that is because when they say they are fluent in 4 languages, they actually are. And they have travelled all around the world gaining work experience and improving their language skills.

If you are good in Spain then eventually you will do well, because there aren't that many good people around. Go for it! Too many people fool themselves and blame the system when actually, they aren't very employable

Re: "How Spain exploits young Workers"
 

It's weird - i agree almost entirely with what you say. But at the same time I'm aware that for some graduates, who leave university with £30 or £40k of debt, they have no choice but to seek out higher paying jobs. The alternative of course is to drop-out (or take low paid work) and not pay the debt - but they then get castigated for being work-shy and shirkers.

Re: "How Spain exploits young Workers"
 

Yes your wife was very lucky, as indeed have been a few other people I know. But there aren't that many Ernst and Youngs around to recruit people, and the majority of law graduates have to contend with either being becarios or trying something else.

As it happens my wife tried something else and is doing fine as a fund analyst with an American investment bank. And I'm doing fine as well for that matter. But neither of us would be so arrogant and deluded as to come out with a phrase like "The cream always rises to the top, even in Spain" just because we were fortunate enough to get decent jobs during the good times and hold on to them (for the time being at least). We've both seen too many good people lose their jobs during this crisis as well as see plenty of idiots "rise to the top" because of family ties.

Re: "How Spain exploits young Workers"
 

Fantastic post.:goodpost::goodpost::goodpost::goodpost:

Re: "How Spain exploits young Workers"
 

That's true as well, but the best people will bounce back!

There are not many opportunities out there, but there are opportunities

The ones who have the worst problems are those under 30 of course. I think at this stage people have to go anywhere in the world where they can find a really good position and then come back to Spain with a much better CV and hopefully with a job attached

That is basically what the wife and I did

Re: "How Spain exploits young Workers"
 

Did you really mean 7k a MONTH pension?

Re: "How Spain exploits young Workers"
 

Yes

Again, I feel like I am fighting against a barrier of prejudice on this site

If you earn over 35k per year then you get the top Spanish state pension, which is 2.5k per month each. Plus private pensions come on top of this

I wanted to make the point that this seems generous compared to the UK system, but of course everyone on here says nobody earns that amount in Spain even though almost everyone I know does earn more than that

Maybe it is because most people here live in the South?

Chopera, your wife must be on a good salary being a trader? Back me up here!

Re: "How Spain exploits young Workers"
 

[QUOTE=cricketman;11219913]Yes

Again, I feel like I am fighting against a barrier of prejudice on this site

If you earn over 35k per year then you get the top Spanish state pension, which is 2.5k per month each. Plus private pensions come on top of this

I wanted to make the point that this seems generous compared to the UK system, but of course everyone on here says nobody earns that amount in Spain even though almost everyone I know does earn more than that

Maybe it is because most people here live in the South?

Chopera, your wife must be on a good salary being a trader? Back me up here![/

7k per month is astronomical for a pension, by anyone's standard! If most people you know get more than that then you must move in a very elite circle!
Many get 7 k pension a year

Re: "How Spain exploits young Workers"
 

And you accuse others of prejudice! Priceless ... well not 7k per month pension priceless :blink:

Re: "How Spain exploits young Workers"
 

No, not at all

As I said, it is just slightly higher than the basic pension for a couple who earn 35k euros per year each. The top 10% of households in Spain will be earning this

If you think a 35k salary in Spain is elite then I really dont know how to respond to you. It is a good salary, but nowhere near elite

Re: "How Spain exploits young Workers"
 

Cman is right, the highest state Pension here is 2.5K per month and yes IME there are quite a lot of people who earn more than 35K per year

Re: "How Spain exploits young Workers"
 

So a couple earning only 35,000 a year each (and I agree that's not exactly huge - not much more than an average salary in the UK) get 12 * 7000 = 84,000 a year pension?

I can see why Spain is in a spot of financial difficulty.

Actually, with reference to the thread title - maybe that's why they have to exploit the young workers - to pay the pensions of the old retired ones.

Re: "How Spain exploits young Workers"
 

No, they get EUR60,000 pension i.e. 5k month. Roughly 85% of their last salary

Me Me was referencing my in-laws who have a small professional pension on top of that

Note that social security contributions for someone who earns over 35k per year are 750 euros per month i.e. very high. The people on here who complain about the high social security contributions need to realise that they go towards paying high pensions

My in-laws who worked on average 45 years each paid an equivalent of 800,000 euros in social security contributions over their lifetime

By the way, to get back on topic. I have met many young adults around my age in Oviedo who have moved back into their own parents old flat, refurbished it and are now living there for free - now that their parents have retired and gone back to live in the village or campo.

This makes a lot of sense, everyone benefits and they get to bring up their children in the same flat they were brought up in

Re: "How Spain exploits young Workers"
 

In 2010 the social security system collected 80Bn€ in contributions but paid out 82 Bn€ in pensions - something wrong there perhaps?

Re: "How Spain exploits young Workers"
 

its actually 2.5x14 =35,000 x 2 = 70,000 I think Cman folks have a private pension which brings them up to 7K per month as opposed to 5K per month basic pension

Re: "How Spain exploits young Workers"
 

Not sure where this is going:confused: it is beginning to sound as if these salaries are the norm. I don't think they are. One of my Spanish relatives is an eye specialist and was only getting €47,000 pa two years ago. Doubt if it has gone up much since from what I have read about hours cuts in the health and public sector jobs. I may look it up.

Re: "How Spain exploits young Workers"
 

I can't speak for the health or public sectors but in the private sectors salaries between 50 and 100 K are quite common especially in the IT field.

Well TBH I only really know about the IT field

Re: "How Spain exploits young Workers"
 

I think that you have your calcs slightly wrong.:)

It is impossible that they paid so much in social secruity.

45, 40, 35, 30, 25 and 25 years ago, I bet that nobody, at whatever level who worked for the social secruity paid 750 a month contributions to SS.

In fact I would state that not many of them would have earned 750 euros a month 30 years ago.

Re: "How Spain exploits young Workers"
 

Good point.

This may be useful. I have called it up for health workers.

http://www.salaryexplorer.com/salary...btype=2&job=13

Re: "How Spain exploits young Workers"
 

She's an analyst not a trader but she earns over €30k and I earn about €50k. However my base salary is lower than hers so she is due a bigger state pension than me. These were good but not spectacular salaries in Madrid during the boom times. As it is illegal for companies to cut wages we've still got those salaries, if we had to look for work now we'd be lucky to get two thirds of that. What really makes a difference to us is the fact that my wife has been able to stay on her full salary while having two children - the maternity leave and "horario de madre" means that we were able to find a way around her taking unpaid leave. Other things like cheap child care, tax rebates and cheap public transport mean we don't really struggle. I tried to work it out recently, and came to the conclusion that to have a similar lifestyle in London we'd both need to be earning six figure salaries.

Going back to the state pension, I think the maximum is around €35k/year which I think corresponds to 35 years of contributions at the maximunmrate. It used to be the case that the final pension was in part calculated on the last few years of contributions, so certain people like autonomos would increase their contributions during those final years. I'm not sure if that is still the case, so maybe now you have to pay in more for more years in order to get the top pension.

There have also been cases of people being offered very generous early retirement deals with 6 figure finiquitos, even during the crisis, and even while the future retirement age was being increased. In my experience I have seen people very average jobs retire at the age of 55. This is obviously unsustainable. Many people thought that taxes on immigrants would pay for it, but the supply of them has dried up. Somebody else will have to pay.

Re: "How Spain exploits young Workers"
 

Yes I agree

The wife and I moved from London to Barcelona in 2007 and dropped salaries by about 20% in the process. We had a way better lifestyle in Barcelona on the lower salary than we did in London

We still earn about 20% less than we did in London (basically because my wife is looking after 2 very small children), but we live like absolute kings in Oviedo. We earn 60k euros per year now, this would probably have to be £150k to have a similar lifestyle in London i.e. 3 times as much. And I'd see my children only at weekends due to the longer working hours and longer commute each day

Re: "How Spain exploits young Workers"
 

I said the "equivalent of"

Re: "How Spain exploits young Workers"
 

What's coming next...a scan of everyone's tax return and bank statements:rofl:

Re: "How Spain exploits young Workers"
 

Transparancy is a good thing. It helps to know what is possible and how you should negotiate

Re: "How Spain exploits young Workers"
 

I'm going to hide mine, despite someone on here telling me I'm rich as we only spend half our pensions a month whilst living very comforrtably, I'm the poor relation! :rofl: I'm accepting charitable donations though.

Re: "How Spain exploits young Workers"
 

Decades ago after being exploited you had an opportunity to get a job, or get the skills to run your own business. Now you are not paid, you serve coffees, and there are no opportunities (each time people have less money).

I agree with that.