How is this possible? What can I do?
 

Back in the summer of 2016 I was on a family holiday in Menorca.

During the holiday myself and a few other holidaymakers were in a bar watching the England v Wales game when there was an argument between the owners and a couple of loud mouthed clowns who were staying at the same hotel I was staying at with my family. Nothing came of it other than a lot of shouting and swearing between the owners of the bar and the loud mouthed clowns. Myself and a few others watched it from across the street as we were leaving.

Later in the day the local police arrived at our hotel and were asking questions to the couple that were in the bar causing the argument. I could hear they were being accused of assault and criminal damage to property, which I knew wasn’t the case, so being a helpful person I offered to give my details as a witness to say there had been no assault or property damaged as I didn’t think that was fair. The police took my passport details and I heard nothing more about it. A few days later I flew home and forgot all about it.

Fast forward a few years and my work carried out a CRB check which came back with a mystery conviction on it. I had no idea what it was for so after doing some research it appeared to be the case that I’d been convicted of assault and criminal damage to this bar from back in 2016… when I did some digging it turned out that the court hearing had been 6 months after I’d left the country and I was unaware it had even happened, or I’d have flown out and refuted it. I didn’t receive any correspondence before or after the conviction had been made and to say I was fuming when I found out is an understatement.

I contacted the British Consulate who said as unfortunate as it was, they couldn’t help but put me in touch with a solicitor on the island, who told me that due to the length of time since the conviction I couldn’t contest it anymore.

I was given (in my absence and unbeknown to me) a relatively small fine of around 300 euros, but as I didn’t even know about it until a random CRB check I couldn’t have done anything about it.

As incredibly annoying as it is, I need to get this paid off as I don’t seem to have any other option. How do I go about this?

Thanks in advance

Regards,

Graham

Re: How is this possible? What can I do?
 

Presumably you have received all this by letter. If so you must have given more than your passport details. Are you saying that this was a fine or court decision?. If a court decision then you couldn't be found guilty without represention. If a fine then it could have been imposed by the police. TBH just pay it as 300 euros is nothing compared what you will need to pay a Spanish lawyer or even a translator to just try and find things out. You should have information on your letter telling how to pay etc

Re: How is this possible? What can I do?
 

Hi Chipmonk, thanks for responding.

I have nothing in writing at all, that’s the main problem. The conviction was logged in December 2016, I was on holiday there in June 2016 so 6 full months after I left Menorca and at no point was I informed that it was happening. I only gave my passport details to the police and said I’d be a witness. I found out about it by chance when my work carried out a CRB check and it was on there. I disputed it with CRB Scotland and they told me when it had been issued. There was a fine issued of 5 euros per day for a month to pay, so roughly 300 euros.

I want to pay the fine (as much as it annoys me, I can’t dispute the conviction due to it being so long ago).

Without any correspondence I have no idea how to go about it and Google tells me nothing helpful. It’s all been very frustrating.

Re: How is this possible? What can I do?
 

So CRB Scotland have logged a criminal conviction? But they are not the ones collecting the money and if you have absolutely no correspondence from Spain then obviously you cant pay anyone.
Wouldn't go back to Spain though!!!

Re: How is this possible? What can I do?
 

Yes CRB Scotland have a note of a criminal conviction registered in Menorca that I wasn’t aware of, have no correspondence relating to it and would have been none the wiser if the CRB check hadn’t been done. I’ve no idea who I’m supposed to pay the fine to.

That doesn’t sound good… I’m supposed to be going to Gran Canaria in a month, as it’s a Spanish island I’m guessing they’ll pull me at the airport as it’ll probably flag up on their system?

Re: How is this possible? What can I do?
 

It seems strange that you have zero correspondence relating to this. I would have thought the police would have given you some kind of written paper at the time confirming the statement you provided as a witness. Anyway if you were convicted of a crime and you were fined and you haven't paid then I would imagine they will have your passport flagged. Maybe someone else knows more about this but I would say you perhaps risk being detained and various other things happening. You dont want to spend a night or two in a Spanish police station in July I'm sure!!

Re: How is this possible? What can I do?
 

I’d much rather not spend any time in a cell if I can avoid it, especially as I’ve done nothing to warrant it in the first place. I just want to pay the fine and get it done with as it seems I don’t have any other options. I just can’t seem to find out how I do it. The local police didn’t interview me as such, I just said I’d be a witness if they needed one if it ever went to court. They took my passport details and that was it. I wasn’t given anything by the police at the time.

As I said, I have absolutely no correspondence at all relating to it.

Re: How is this possible? What can I do?
 

Phone the Spanish consulate I imagine they would be able to help. Other than that I cant imagine there will simply be a place where you pay a criminal conviction fine and nobody asks questions.

Re: How is this possible? What can I do?
 

https://advocateabroad.com/lawyers/spain/gran-canaria/
I would suggest you contact someone like this, to get some advice in case you are stopped at the airport. At least they may be able to advise you of the likely consequences of not having paid the fine. Forewarned is forearmed.

Re: How is this possible? What can I do?
 

If it were me I'd get someone (Spanish speaker) to visit the local police station in Menorca where the incident would have been dealt with at the time, everything must surely follow from that.

Re: How is this possible? What can I do?
 

What a horrible story. I wonder if the 300 euro fine includes any further fines for late payment?

Re: How is this possible? What can I do?
 

Do you still have the same passport ?

if it expired and you now have a new one, you have a different number so you won’t get stopped once you arrive in Gran Canaria.

Re: How is this possible? What can I do?
 

Thanks for the advice Steve, I’ll message them in the morning. I just want to get the fine paid and done with as there’s nothing else I can do about it, hopefully once it’s paid I’ll sail through immigration without a hitch

Re: How is this possible? What can I do?
 

The thing is, it’s now 5 years down the line and I don’t see how it’d help. That and I don’t know any Spanish speakers who live anywhere other than mainland Spain.

Re: How is this possible? What can I do?
 

It’s the stuff of nightmares for me. I’ve been banging my head off a wall trying to sort it out for ages, and with me being supposed to fly out to Gran Canaria in a months time it really needs doing before I fly to avoid an embarrassing situation at the airport on arrival I suspect.

I’ve got my fingers crossed it’ll still be 300 euros but who knows? Could be more now, either way, I don’t want it hanging over me forever.

Re: How is this possible? What can I do?
 

It’s still the same passport so that won’t make any difference.

Re: How is this possible? What can I do?
 

it’s a crazy situation and will be difficult to resolve, I’m sure you’ll be anxious flying to Gran Canaria.

It may be best applying for a new passport otherwise you could face even more problems that you really shouldn’t have to, it’ll be a lot cheaper than €300 too.

Re: How is this possible? What can I do?
 

How would you go about it on the island (uk)? It is probably the same here but in Spanish. Telephone the clerk of the court.

The only problem you may run into is that it might require a spanish bank account to pay online or even on the telephone.

try calling these people - Spanish Tax Agency - AEAT

Re: How is this possible? What can I do?
 

I doubt it is that easy? All the criminals would be able to avoid detection.

Re: How is this possible? What can I do?
 

I remember a while back a very similar thread. I posted this link on there which basically outlines an online conversation re how to deal with this issue. To have any hope of sorting this out you wlll need the proper details of the court etc that issued the fine, fine details references etc.
https://www.justanswer.co.uk/spanish...paid-when.html

Re: How is this possible? What can I do?
 

Here's that old thread
https://britishexpats.com/forum/spai...-spain-907355/

Re: How is this possible? What can I do?
 

A Spanish lawyer woul help but you would need to offer to pay before they would actively do anything. They will be able to make enquiries to the police etc. I am far from am expert but if what you say is true then if the Scotttish crime data base has a record of you being guilty of a crime then it has to be more serious than some minor infringement or a fine. If you , as you say merely offered assistance if needed in a trial and now have been found guilty of a crime you did not commit and were neither contacted nor represented in a court case then you have a duty to report this to the relevant authorities as this would be a very serious abuse of power. If it were me I would take this very seriously and would not be considering just clearing it up so I can come on holiday as such actions ( to people not knowing the full details) would suggest that you may have been avoiding the law and you most likely will be arrested.

Re: How is this possible? What can I do?
 

There is no "abuse" of power. Somewhere along the line he missed something. You can be tried and found guilty in many EU countries even if you are not there in person.

Re: How is this possible? What can I do?
 

Okay so what happened was. This guy went back to Spain. Was stopped at airport. Detained for 6 days and received a 3 month suspended sentence. He had previously faced a fine of 2000 euros. So I guess they will stop the OP at airport and I would imagine they will treat it quite seriously. The OP must contact the consulate both Spanish and UK one.

Re: How is this possible? What can I do?
 

Where did you get the details that this fine was 5 euros per day for a month? Is that on the CRB record? If it is then surely if they have such detail on the record then the full details are on there court issuing fine reference number etc. Have you changed address from the details you provided the Spanish police at the time of speaking to them? If not then why have they never contacted you to inform you they were pursuing the matter and that you had been fined by a court in your absence? If you have these details from the CRB record I would contact the Spanish embassy and take it from there. Yes you can be tried in absence for instance if someone refuses to attend or fails to appear at court, you have to be given the opportunity to attend and represent yourself by at least notification to the address you have provided the police with? Also any fine has to be served by at least registered post to the address provided? What you outline would be great for any police to clear up their cases they just randomly prosecute and fine anyone who's details they have? If you have not had anything whatsoever by way of information re this then the legal system has failed. I know traffic fines can be dealt with by photographic evidence only but even then the information must be sent to the person concerned within time limits, criminal offences are another matter. Somethings gone way wrong or there is a piece of this jigsaw missing.

Re: How is this possible? What can I do?
 

I totally agree hence my previous post

Re: How is this possible? What can I do?
 

I just had a post removed for breaking rule number 2 which also removed my offer of help

Your only real option is to contact a Spanish solicitor to pay the fine, the original court case is closed and based on a policeman's evidence so the conviction will stay regardless of your innocence, you'll just end up paying the fine and the solicitor for his time.

I have just spoken to a solicitor and she doesn't believe there is any central database here in Spain that you can put your passport number to bring up the details, she says you should have been notified at the address you gave at the time for both the court date and outcome which corresponds with what others have said here.

You should have been given a number if you have this, probably on the CRB you received you will then be able to contact any court in Menorca to clarify the situation and they will give you details on how to pay, if you have this and don't want to pay a solicitor send me a pm and I can have someone speak to the courts on your behalf and forward you what you need to do to have the fine removed.

Re: How is this possible? What can I do?
 

I honestly think the first thing to do is contact the consulate. This is not some fine for speeding or non payment of a debt etc. The OP is registered as having a criminal conviction. Simply paying the fine will not clear the conviction. The OP will need to present himself in front of a judge to have the conviction assessed to determine if further measures should be taken or the conviction reviewed.

Re: How is this possible? What can I do?
 

Is this point of view a one from the UK or of the Spanish justice system? Sentences 2 years and under here do not usually mean going to prison.

Re: How is this possible? What can I do?
 

The UKs extremely simple and fast compared to Spain.

The consulate will refer you to a solicitor, a decent one will say pay it and move on, others will start an expensive slow legal fight with little hope of achieving anything other than draining your bank account.

Re: How is this possible? What can I do?
 

I tend to agree the time to argue the case was when the hearing / trial was conducted, re opening a closed case will be difficult to say the least. I suppose only factor in OPs favour in that would be from what they say, never told they were a suspect but dealt with as a witness, no information sent to address details provided to police informing them they were no longer a witness but a suspect or told a hearing/ court case was taking place so that OP could defend themselves. However if no longer at the address given what steps were taken to update contact address? Dealings I have had with police in Spain are apart from initial contact and initial cop trying to fob one off with language issue, after that the actual process isn't really different to UK and you are given written details and contacts for update. There are unexplained elements here. So first thing is contact Spanish embassy and if happy to pay fine and close the matter move on. If totally unhappy same contact embassy and find out how to challenge what has happened. In that case be prepared to pay because they will without doubt advise you how to do that through a solicitor with a lengthy and costly appeal.

Re: How is this possible? What can I do?
 

Just one other odd thing is how this fine is issued on a per day basis? That sounds very odd for a penalty for assault and criminal damage. A per day fine generally is a penalty for not complying with doing something I. E. Fine increased per day for late payment etc.

Re: How is this possible? What can I do?
 

The fine is listed on the CRB check, 2 different fines, one for assault, one for damage to property. Both fines are 5 euros per day for a month, so 150 euros for each. I’ve had my work email me the CRB check today to double check I’ve not missed anything on there. Where it says court it simply says “ 1st instance and preliminary investigation number “.

I’ve changed address once since 2016 but that was at the end of last year and nothing had come through to my address at all.

I took earlier advice and got in touch with ‘advocates abroad’ and had a conversation with a solicitor based on Majorca. She has asked me to get the details of which court issued the fine from Disclosure Scotland and to email the details through to her with a copy of the CRB check. Then she will send me the email contact details of the court as well an email in Spanish to be sent to the court so they can send me details of how to pay the fine, and then after I’ve paid it hopefully this will be over and I can go on holiday without worrying about spending time in a cell.

I can’t explain how I ended up with these convictions, other than there has been a horrendous mix-up in the notes the police took and they’ve assumed I was one of the trouble makers rather than someone trying to offer assistance.

As previously mentioned, until the CRB check was carried out I had no idea whatsoever that this had happened to me and had I not had the CRB check done I’d still be none the wiser.

Re: How is this possible? What can I do?
 

That sounds like a positive move. Hopefully the Spanish lawyer will be able to get a speedy solution. Good luck

Re: How is this possible? What can I do?
 

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/british...bdbf9ad0c.jpeg
This is what the CRB says, as you can see, no indication of which court it was.

Re: How is this possible? What can I do?
 

Thank you, I’m still waiting to hear back from Disclosure Scotland as to which court issued the fine, but once I have that I’ll send the details to the solicitor and hopefully she can help me further.

I’ve already been told I can’t contest the convictions as it’s so long since they were made. I’ll just have to live with them and explain the same story again and again to anyone that sees them. Not ideal but much cheaper and realistic than going back to Menorca to even try and contest them.

Lesson for the day: don’t try and be helpful when it comes to Spanish police… 🙈

Re: How is this possible? What can I do?
 

Reading the important part looks like a translation from a Spanish relevant document which can often mean aspects of detail are not clear. Again your Spanish lawyer will be able to clear all that up.

Re: How is this possible? What can I do?
 

Certainly a step forward getting the advice and help from advocates abroad. Interesting wording from the disclosure it may be as has been said that something has got confused with translating from the legal document into English. Good luck getting it sorted as you say 300 euros will at least allow you to get on with your life. Post to and from Spain can he a nightmare at best of times. Twice recently I have waited weeks and weeks for an important letter to arrive eventually after 6 weeks 2 months contacted the senders to re send what I required again which invalidates what I was waiting for, only for next post the dam thing turns up. Or the Christmas card I sent to a friend in S Africa which took over 2 years to arrive lol. Good look at least you have got the right help from what you say and bringing the matter to a close.

Re: How is this possible? What can I do?
 

This is such a sad catch 22 situation. You could pay through the nose for a dragged out case or pay the fine, about which you have no choice. But paying it means admitting to the crime, which are serious charges. This will stay on Disclosure forever and bar you from many jobs. There must be somebody who can help you?

Re: How is this possible? What can I do?
 

** UPDATE **
Afternoon all, hope you're all well. I've finally got another update on this utterly ridiculous farce.

After spending literally months sending dozens of emails trying to get to the bottom of things, I got an email this morning from the court in question which reads as follows:

"Buenos días, hemos revisado sus expedientes y tiene pendiente de pago 175 euros en concepto de indemnización en el expediente EJECUTORIA 15/2017. La multa ya ha prescrito así que no tiene que pagarla. Deberá de realizar una transferencia al BANCO SANTANDER en la cuenta número:"

I very roughly translate that to:

"Your fines have expired, you need to pay 175 Euros in compensation into our Santander account" or at least I hope that's what it says

I've now also got copies of the court documentation which I've sent through to the solicitor I used on Advocates Abroad for them to have a look at and let me know how I pay the 175 Euros

My worry is the court documents appear to suggest I have to serve 1 day locked up for each 2 days I didn't pay the fine (which I didn't even know I'd been given) as the fine hadn't been paid in a set time. (Blame Google Translate if I've got that wrong!)

Looks like I'm finally getting things sorted out at last. What a mess...