How do you define fluent?
 

This was prompted by an M&S recruitment ad - could I honestly (in my terms) say I'm fluent - no. Would some other people say I speak fair Spanish? Yes. On top of that I find that despite the odd very good conversation I'm mostly frustrated that my Spanish won't keep up with the speed of my English brain..... For me, I think there's more to it than just being able to chit chat in the supermarket or chiringuito, I reckon being able to demonstrate the existence of the bit between the ears would help, & without that I certainly couldn't say I'm fluent.
How do you define fluency?

Re: How do you define fluent?
 

Well, since it requires an understanding of intonation and the subtley of timing it's delivery - not to say knowiing how words can have different meanings, I'd say the ability to tell jokes (more than just a "knock-knock" style one-liner) is a good indication.
Also the ability to swear, without hesitation, repitition or deviation :wub: for an extended period might impress some people

Re: How do you define fluent?
 

I find the ability to hold a really good argument complete with arm waving, pointing, foot stamping and face pulling not only displays a level of fluency, it wins a great deal of respect from the other party.

I tend to avoid anyone in a uniform or in posession of some kind of firearm, best left to the native speakers who have a better judge of intonation... :eek:

Re: How do you define fluent?
 

There are different levels of fluency (I suppose ranging from "defending oneself" to "dominating the language" is a loose translation of how the Spanish put it). You can have a basic level of fluency (understand what is normally said and be able to be understood by others), but you'll soon come a cropper in most jobs as there is normally jargon. For instance if you work with a computer you may know what teclado or arroba means, but would you know how to translate "update all rows where the foreign key exists in the orders table"? If you work in healthcare there would be a lot of other words and expressions you'd need to know (indeed you may not even know the meaning of certain words in your own language). And even the most fluent speakers can rarely pass for a local. It's not the same as being bi-lingual - which is normally only achieved if you've spent your childhood in a particular country.

Re: How do you define fluent?
 

I find it useful to learn certain expressions and idioms as they can often impress. For example if you're asked where your friend is today, instead of explaining "oh - he had too much to drink last night and now he has a resaca/hangover" you could say "esta con el mono". Of course the danger with this is your companion then starts using idioms a lot more and you quickly lose your way in the conversation.

Re: How do you define fluent?
 

I would say when the words flow constantly and effortlessly like a fluid,............
.......or like me after a few jars on a Saturday night.

Mind you, I doubt if anyone else would understand a single word!.......:rofl:

Re: How do you define fluent?
 

For me fluency means that you do not have to do mental gymnastics in your mind before you speak.
You dont have to rehearse different ways of saying things, you just get it right the first time, and then you dont sit and think later, that you wish you would have said it better.
I know that I am fluent, because, if I watch a film and someone asks me what language it was in, most times I cant remember, because I am confortable with both languages.

Re: How do you define fluent?
 

I get one of those but not the other. I can't usually remember what language I watched or heard or read something in, but I do notice my mistakes and wish I'd said things better.

Re: How do you define fluent?
 

If you have to ask or even wonder if you are fluent, then like me, you are not. lol

Re: How do you define fluent?
 

i agree.

i don't think fluent means "perfect", but fluid, without thinking without stuttering and hesitating too much (no more than you would in English).

hence fluent/fluido, it flows

Re: How do you define fluent?
 

Nobody is perfect in any language.

Re: How do you define fluent?
 

Well you sound "nearly there" to me..........

Re: How do you define fluent?
 

I think that total fluency is only achieved if you think in the language.

Re: How do you define fluent?
 

Good point....I would agree,... though I think I probably still have a long way to go.

Re: How do you define fluent?
 

If you understand andaluz, you´re fluent.

Re: How do you define fluent?
 

That's a good one.

Also if you have a conversation with someone and you subsequently can't remember what language you held the conversation in, because it is not something that you do consciously......it is your sub-conscious speaking.

Re: How do you define fluent?
 

oh well, I'm not fluent in english then:huh:

I can't tell jokes & neither do I swear - in english or spanish!

Re: How do you define fluent?
 

jdr
If you have to ask or even wonder if you are fluent, then like me, you are not. lol


I know I'm not fluent, but I was intrigued not only because I had a feeling there'd be some very interesting/thought provoking answers - which there have been - but also because of what I said about feeling stupid in Spanish. I frequently feel unable to demonstrate there is a brain in there somewhere. I definitely have the mental gymnastics preparing what I want to say, and the constant knowledge that not only could I have said things better but more often than not should have - hence saying 'some' people would consider I spoke reasonable Spanish. Most Spaniards I know are politely complimentary but that's all I think it is, polite rather than accurate!
I find some of the definitions fascinating, because for example I'd recognised some common swear words & be able to say them should I choose (which I don't) and am able to argue/defend myself in a 'safe' setting (challenging a foreman's assertions in a garage) though I definitely wouldn't claim the words coming out of my mouth were in the correct tense;)

Re: How do you define fluent?
 

I think in Spanish (or don't think) when I'm speaking spanish & I yell at the tele in spanish if I'm in a spanish dominated situation

vice versa in an english dominated situation

I sometimes dream in spanish

I do find more & more though that I often (to my embarrassment) can't think of the english word for something that I habitually use the spanish word for:eek:

am I fluent?

I don't think so - I know I sometimes make mistakes - but at least I'm aware of them!

I'm sure if I lived in a more 'spanish' area' that I would be though


I know an english woman - she has lived here more than 20 years - was married to a spanish guy & they only ever spoke spanish (or valenciano) - they have an adult daughter

she had all but forgotten how to speak english - but she wouldn't consider herself fluent in spanish:blink:


they split up & she's now with an english guy - & is almost re-learning english - to the point that she speaks english with his accent!

Re: How do you define fluent?
 

I just looked at the recruitment site - if you go through the english links it asks if you are fluent in spanish, but if you follow the spanish links it doesn't ask about either language;)

so different to Iceland/Overseas foods here - hardly any of the staff speak any spanish at all!

Re: How do you define fluent?
 

I know two working there (CDS) and both have spanish Fathers.

Being fluent is when there is no need to translate what is said.

Re: How do you define fluent?
 

hmm interesting!

:frown:That's a whole other thread...makes me seeth that at the Mijas/Fuengirola branch the cashiers only speak to customers in English, I've never heard Spanish spoken... ok it's a British outfit etc but they're in Spain FGS.....

Not sure about this; I don't think I always translate everything back to English in my head when someone's speaking to me. Sometimes, yes, but not always. And using Spanish words which come out automatically without any thought, to DD whose understanding of Spanish is negligible is quite hilarious!
Still wouldn't in several million light years describe myself as fluent:rofl:

Re: How do you define fluent?
 

I don't know, I can remember not needing to translate long before I would consider myself fluent. Comprehension of what is being said comes long before spoken fluency.

Re: How do you define fluent?
 

not our Iceland - I know a few working there - I'm told that the only one who worked there who was fluent didn't get a contract after the 3 month trial was up

Re: How do you define fluent?
 

Fluent = Being able to speak a foriegn language at the same level as your native one ,hence very few really are , I only know one foriegneer who is truly fluet in Spanish and they work for the courts as an authorised translator which should be proof enough for anyone.

Re: How do you define fluent?
 

Being fluent is not having to think at all, (I hope you all can understand what I mean)

It is like driving a car, at first you have to think about everything, not lifting the clutch too much, not knowing when to change gear.

I used to dread a hill start, which you could equate to speaking the "foreign" language. You had to mentaly prepare not to roll back or stall.
Sometimes it was very hit and miss.

Then on day you are driving along and wonder how you got to 4th gear, you did it all without thinking. Thad for me is fluency.

You dont think at all, because you dont need to.:)

Re: How do you define fluent?
 

It could be argued that true fluency is, like Zeno's tortoise perpetually just out of reach.

However, in a more everyday environment to me the best definition is that you can understand without thinking, all that is said to you.

Re: How do you define fluent?
 

So what's the difference between fluent and bilingual then? Or isn't there one?

Re: How do you define fluent?
 

My friends daughter is totally bilingual/fluent (has been in Spanish school since she was 5 and is now 15) and her definition is that being fluent means you can say what you want without translating it from english to spanish in your head first??????


Jo xxx

Re: How do you define fluent?
 

Exactly!

Re: How do you define fluent?
 

Bilingual means being able to use both languages with the ease of a native in all four skills (speaking, writing, listening and reading). Fluency on the other hand only covers speaking and writing, so one may be fluent but still have mediocre comprehension skills.

Re: How do you define fluent?
 

You learn something new every day.;)

So it is not so difficult to become fluent then.

Re: How do you define fluent?
 

Indeed. I'm half way to bilingual then, but the wrong half to be fluent.

Re: How do you define fluent?
 

I would class my self as bilingual, but my missus says that I am not, because I am no good at listening or understanding in either language.
:lol::lol:

Re: How do you define fluent?
 

"Fluent" is posting on this forum saying you are spanish but your English is soooo good you know all about everything British better than the Brits

Re: How do you define fluent?
 

:D

Re: How do you define fluent?
 

to be fair, my kids growing up here could post on a spanish forum & everyone would think they were spanish - even spanish people on first meeting them are confused - they look 'foreign' & then open their mouths!

if you grow up in a country, what are you?

I don't mean legally - legally my kids are & will almost certainly continue to be british - they can make their own decisions about that as adults


but my younger dd has been here more than half her life already, and the older one almost has - they are already more spanish than english in a lot of their attitudes & mannerisms - by the time they are adults I think they will have lost what 'englishness' they still have

Re: How do you define fluent?
 

You may not have (or choose) to think first but you can hardly consider yourself fluent if you come out with a load of incomprehensible nonsense with appalling grammar!!:rofl::rofl:

Re: How do you define fluent?
 

What a horrible thing to say. It reads fine to me, just a few typos, but who can be bothered to check for them

Re: How do you define fluent?
 

Indeed, but then I expect Rotor´s Spanish is much better than JLFS´s English.:)