Re: How close to the breadline?
 

The "old" Spain still exists in very many places.
I guess you just haven't taken the trouble to look for it.

..and it still gets exactly the same hours of daylight it got ten years ago, believe it or not.

What hour of day it shows on your clock is somewhat irrelevant in Spain I would have thought.

Re: How close to the breadline?
 

There are countries already buying train systems from Spain, and it's looking likely that both Norway and Saudi Arabia (although France are still in the running) will be buying fast train systems soon from consortiums led by Spanish companies - talking billions, not millions worth of orders.
As for numbers of passengers - already some services take millions of passengers each year eg Madrid to Valencia, Madrid to Barcelona. Also the local sevices Segovia to Madrid, and Toledo to Madrid are very well occupied. The fast train link up to Paris via Figueras and Barcelona is scheduled to start Autumn 2012, and already they are forecasting 2.9 million passengers in the first year on that line. Any of the sceptics like to bet it will be under 2 million in the first year? Once the fast train network is connected to the European system (via French SCNF) you'll see even better take-ups.

It's not directly connected to the high speed rail investment, but the following article shows how the increase in Spanish reputation in trains is leading to orders world-wide (in this case New Zealand)

http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/loca...land-train-job

Re: How close to the breadline?
 

Karma given! Exactly what I was thinking - you probably put it better than I could.

Re: How close to the breadline?
 

Thanks for that, I suspect there might be more than that. I was particularly interested because it could happen to me, the exodus.

Two days ago, we were in a Spanish town square on Columbus day. Watching the locals strutting about proudly is something I'll never tire off. I'd miss it back in the UK, I'm having nightmares about rain-sodden Suffolk.

Re: How close to the breadline?
 

I fear this is happening in a lot of countries, just it's well hidden. For example people talk about the 40-50% of young people in Spain without a job, and indeed it's a grim statistic. But look at this - the number of economically inactive young people in the UK (18-24 year olds) is.... 50%.

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/878350-u...ts-out-of-work

Of course some of those "economically inactives" are in full-time education and (one hopes) they will get a decent job when their studies finish. But it shows that it's not just Spain where jobs are hard to find. I hope the political leaders (and business chiefs) find a solution soon. I certainly don't want to walk down a city street where the local youth have been excluded from a chance to earn a decent living. I'm getting a bit old to fight back against feral muggers, whatever their origin.

Re: How close to the breadline?
 

I don't recognise your view of the UK either, unless it's changed dramatically in the last few months. Here in London nearly all building workers seem to prefer payment by cash for services rendered - well the Polish, Bulgarians and Rumanians do :unsure: Maybe it's the customers, who prefer getting the job done half price. And maybe you're right - I'll ask around and find out if anyone has had a similar experience. If it has changed as you describe, the local indigeneous builders (if there are any left) will certainly be happy.

Re: How close to the breadline?
 

I know most of Spain and it doesn't exist at all, probably you are talking about out of the way pueblos with a load of inbreds and a lack of any culture. What would you know Stevie, your knowledge seems to only be of Madrid and tapas bars! Perhaps demolishing the costa concrete would be a start. It may get better as the economy gets worse, the spanish realise they have killed the golden goose perhaps they will attempt to get some things back and lose some of the arrogance.
I have just been to Italy and although I wouldn't want to live there the difference in friendliness and service is marked. The coast line is still stunning and not ravaged by third-world concrete blocks. Admittedly it is more expensive than Spain but I suppose you pay for what you get.

Re: How close to the breadline?
 

It is understandable that Spaniards will try to fiddle their taxes, with the level of corruption here particularly from their "betters" would you not feel exactly the same way. It becomes a personal necessity whereas in the UK we may grumble but understand that the higher the level of taxes the better the services although MPs with their corruption could create a similar situation there.
Another problem for Spain could be the decrease in the birth rate which may cause problems in the future when work increases.

Graham

Re: How close to the breadline?
 

Give it up Stevie, you should know that only two or three people on this forum know about Spain everyone else is an idiot.

Graham.

Re: How close to the breadline?
 

Judging by your posts of Spain (2 euro coffees standard, not knowing certain common dishes and having to look them up in the dictionary), I'm sorry, but I have zero confidence in your "knowledge" of Spain. A small part of the tourist coast near Marbellas perhaps. Even most of your article quotes are from the local paper Sur. Spain is a big country - you mention a stunning coast line in Italy - try Cantabria or Asturias or Galicia. Have you ever even been there? :rofl:

Re: How close to the breadline?
 

I wonder how you know all this:confused: My workman was English and runs a bona fide company. We did have a very nice turkish guy to repair a gate and an iraqui and a Kurd deliver our dining room furniture. They were all excellent. I don't have a problem with foreigners if they work. Would be better if they threw out some of the workshy benefit addicted Brits:rofl:

Re: How close to the breadline?
 

There you go again coming in with your snarky asides almost everytime I post, some concierge:thumbdown:

Re: How close to the breadline?
 

As usual in your headlong charge into defending anything slightly negative about Spain, you make mistakes. I said "the excellent AVE", nobody is questioning the quality of the train service, what is being argued (by a Spanish guy that knows far more than you or I about the subject) is the business model, it's spread over too large a country with too few people to ever be profitable. You talk about "predicted figures", that's where this system has failed abysmally, the actual figures have never been anywhere near the wildly optimistic predicted figures. You can tell us how well the lines are doing, the article clearly states "Es que todas las líneas de AVE en España son deficitarias", they are all losing money! It goes on to say that´s why richer, more populated countries like Germany, Japan, France have very few lines, and no plans to have any more. I´ll leave you to argue with yourself, you can perhaps you can talk it into being profitable. I´ll leave you with a quote though before I go from La Vanguardia.

Spain's high-speed trains unprofitable
The Spanish railway company Renfe will close the AVE high-speed rail link Toledo-Cuenca-Albacete on July 1 after only six months in operation. As with other routes on Spain's high-speed railway network - among the largest in the world - the demand was too low. The Spanish daily La Vanguardia pokes fun at the ridiculous waste of money for the project: "Everyone here wanted an AVE link to score at the ballot box. This ghost train with its empty carriages and more staff than passengers is the parable of a country that went to bed rich and woke up poor; and went on dreaming the day after. When Merkel read the news at breakfast yesterday she no doubt cursed all the money Germany had invested in this absurd project. She probably thought it would have been cheaper to give a Mercedes to each of the nine passengers the train averaged daily rather than backing this senseless project in the land of Don Quixote."

Buenas noches.

Re: How close to the breadline?
 

Your persona on this talkboard is that of a rich privileged Brit who's never had to work. You may be different in real life, but I wonder if you're the best suited to talk about workshy Brits. :confused:
I agree that plenty of folk from the Middle East are decent hard working folk. Much like anywhere. Which is my basic philosophy on life. Some people do their best to point out I'm wrong though. Who knows?

Re: How close to the breadline?
 

I have been everywhere, don't have to rely on google like some. Had connections to Spain since I was in nappies. I read Sur daily because it was my local newpaper and have friends and relatives there so it is my natural interest. Sorry galicia is beautiful (for a visit) but I would stick pins in my eyes before living there! It is you who doesn't know about Spain, anyone would be aware reading between the lines of your posts that you sit on the computer picking up stuff from google and fantacising about the place.