House prices
 

I watched yesterday a couple of old episodes of 'place in the sun' centred around the costa blanca.

What level do you think house prices have fallen back to. Maybe it's too general a question but I think 2007/8 seems about right to me.

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I would have thought a lot less than that, would suggest early 2000 or even earlier.

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Definitely very much earlier than 2007/2008.

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2007-8 was the peak according to this diagram, though it only shows new builds. They are now back to about 2004-5.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._n_jun2009.png

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Often worth looking at Property Insight for house price info.

http://www.spanishpropertyinsight.co...ail/#more-7911

http://www.spanishpropertyinsight.co...table-2q12.jpg

Of course all figures have to be taken with a pinch of salt. A good area will hold up better, and a poorly placed property may have decined more than the average.

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On the programme I was watching was a 3bed villa with pool and granny flat in an area called Rafalet near Javea, the price in 2008 was £300k. A quick look at agents on the web show loads of similar properties for around the same about 350-300k euros. Is it just estate agents being hopeful or is this a fair price.

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A quick look on Idealista seems to bring back 3 bed villas (with pool) for 230k or 260k euros
http://www.idealista.com/inmueble/1215205/
http://www.idealista.com/inmueble/1620151/

Are they in the ball park? Still expensive to me, I suspect next year will be even cheaper.

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Thanks for the links Stevie, they are cheaper than what I have found and very similar.

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I looked at a finca near Zafra in 2004 the owner was asking €180,000 the English agent was asking €205,000 I turned it down, but it sold shortly after.

I have since seen it on the market at more than €350,000 but it is still on at €290,000 today.

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When people talk about the amazing price crashes in the Spanish housing market, they are looking at those horrible new builds in cheap areas, not somewhere like Javea.

Rafalet and similar areas around Javea are in a different class, and I'm surprised that a detached villa there, with a swimming pool and granny flat is for sale at only 300K. I lived there some 16 years ago, and at that time a villa in Rafalet would have cost around the same amount, proportionally.

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The Spanish property market peaked in 2007

Since then there has been a 30% drop on average (2005 levels), although this is more like 50% on the Costa del sol and Costa blanca (2001 levels)

It doesnt matter what price some people have their properties up for, many have been up for sale for 5 years now, or more. Its want they sell for, and sales are at historic lows

The magic figure for me is 1,000 euros per square meter. Once they get below that for a good property in a good area then I'll think seriously about buying. There are already some flats or rundown villas on the CDS for that price.

Obviously this depends on the area too. In the middle of Barcelona/Madrid this will never happen

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I think many of these properties that have been on sale for a long time were bought when estate agents were charging exorbitant fees, which pushed the price up, now that has stopped many people are left with negative equity, in some cases a huge debt, and they can't afford to sell at less than they are asking, a vicious circle as they are still haveing to pay the mortgage they originally started with. These properties are likely to be on the market for many more years.

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Traditionally it is not usual for Spanish people to haggle or accept lower offers when selling property. You hold out for the asking price, even if it takes years.

Things are changing now I guess ...

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That is very evident here. The only properties being sold are owned by expats who are prepared to discount heavily.

It is changing though. The previous house we rented (Spanish owned) was on the market for 240,000 (it was never worth that) and I have heard that he would now accept 140,000. It won't sell for that but it's going the right way...

It is definitely a tenants market here at the moment.

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In the current market asking prices don't mean much. Looking at property in the town where we live (we are toying with the idea of buying) there are a lot of properties listed at prices which would have been optimistic at the peak of the market. I don't know why agents list properties at prices they know are probably double what they are worth at present. There are a few properties which could now be described as a bargain and I guess they will probably sell. I don't know how the house price statistics are compiled but you know what Winston Churchill said about statistics? In case you don't he said - " there are lies, there are damned lies, and there are statistics".

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True. Some have even been known to increase the price every year too:rofl: We once put in an offer for a house and the spanish woman came back with an increase on the asking price:blink: Needless to say it was still on sale for a long time.

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It's a similar situation with private sale of cars - you see them advertised for ever -at wildly optimistic prices.

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This attitude amazed me when I was looking for somewhere to buy in 2002/2003. We made an offer on a house in late 2002 (not very much below the asking price) which was refused - even though the owners didn't want to move out until the following October, and we would have been prepared to wait. The estate agent tried to get us to pay the asking price and still wait 9 months to complete, saying "but the house will be worth more by then"!!! I said well it might be, and then it might not, but I still don't want it at that price. I looked at his website again in January and the price of the house had been increased by 10%. God loves a trier, as they say.

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It's a common occurrence in Spain, though maybe not quite so much during the present recession.

Houses or land can be advertised at the same price for several years without attracting a buyer, then just when you think the price must surely go down,it suddenly jumps up instead.

I guess they must like to keep up with inflation.

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Houses sold before the present CRISIS so the system must have worked, at least for the locals.

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Well it did. Houses increased in price by 400% between 1995 and 2005 so its no wonder that the attitude was like this

Different ball game now of course

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I did always wonder though (cynical, moi?) if the refusal to budge from the asking price would apply if the prospective purchaser was Spanish? Somehow I just can't see there being no negotiation on price between a Spanish vendor and a Spanish buyer.

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Why would it make any difference?

Money doesnt talk

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Sorry, I don't understand your point. What I am saying is that yes, houses will always have been bought and sold in Spain, but I am sceptical that Spanish vendors would have refused to accept offers below the asking price from Spanish buyers - which is the experience that many foreign buyers have had in Spain, especially before the current recession hit. Certainly when we were dealing with viewers on behalf of a friend whose house was for sale, almost the first question any prospective Spanish buyers (just like those of any other nationality!) asked was "the price is xxxxxx? How much would you be prepared to accept?". And yet when I was buying (from Spanish vendors), twice I made offers within 5% of the asking price, which were both refused.

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At that time the market was buoyant, and prices going up all the time, so I'm not surprised that they wanted more a year later.

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They may well have wanted more, but did they get it, that is the question? That house stayed on the market for ages, I think it was eventually sold but since that time has been occupied by a succession of Morroccan families, with rooms partitioned up and part of the roof terrace converted into extra rooms. I can't imagine they paid top price for it, so I think it highly likely that the owners lost out in the end by not accepting a reasonable offer. Not my problem, of course, I just walked away and bought another house at a price I was prepared to pay. The agent was incredulous that although I liked the house, I was prepared to say no thank you.

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Almost certainly. Some of the Spanish around here are convinced that Brits will pay more for a house because the Pound is worth more than the Euro. :confused:

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We all know that housing markets are in the doldrums, and not only in Spain. Yet, from what I've seen of Spanish sellers, of just about anything and not only houses, they tend to fix a price and stick with it.

I know of several Spanish houses nearby which have been up for sale for many years and the prices haven't been reduced. It may have something to do with inheritance laws (practices) because some of the owners have since died and the houses are still for sale at the previous prices. The inheritors take it in turns to attend and keep the gardens and outside tidy.

It even filters through to houses repossessed by the banks, they fix a price relative to the outstanding mortgage, and stick with it even though it's wildly out of date.

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No, according to my BF's father this was always the case, regardless of who the buyer is.

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we have just seen a gorgeous house at €200,000 owned by Spaniards and a not so gorgeous house at €250,000 owned by Brits.

the former are prepared to negotiate the latter may negotiate but we get the feeling that as they bought 6 years ago, top of the boom, they will not negotiate by much at all

you have to be realistic, but it must depend on how much you have spent as to how much you feel you can sell for. If as with the Brits who are retired you need that sum to move on then there is no room for negotiation.

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It's possible to see loads of reduced price properties on the likes of Idealista. Of course there will always be those who will refuse to budge on price. No need to waste time on them - there is a vast number of properties that need buying up.

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Similar experience in the early 80's the vendor just walked away without uttering a word.

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I do feel sorry for people who bought at the top of the market and now want/need to sell at or near the bottom, but I really don't understand why people think it's a good idea to put a property up for sale at a totally unrealistic price in today's market, when surely they must realise that they don't stand a cat in hell's chance of selling it? What they paid for it is irrelevant really, only what comparable houses in the same area are up for sale at, and what buyers are prepared to pay, matters.

Personally I think it's pointless to have a property languishing on the market for years on end, as plenty of those belonging to people I know have been, as it must make people tend to think there is something wrong with it, and if I see properties for sale marked 'huge reduction' it just makes me think the vendors must be desperate.

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They probably are... A friend who sold her house, moved back to the UK when her husband developed an incurable cancer, and had to sell after his death, it took her, in 2008, 12 months to sell, a house with catastral value of €180,00, for 90,000. Thankfully her mortgage had become paid off when her husband died.

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some expats seem to have a very inflated idea of their property's worth.
one we saw a couple of weeks ago as a house wasnt worth anything, it made me so angry that they had made no effort to repair the little things like wall and floor tiles that had fallen off. And as to having a water heater above the bed in the 2nd bedroom :eek:
the only thing there of any use was the pool, good clean even the pump was clean.
just too much to pay for a pool and a bit of land - €150k :rofl:

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I quite agree with you. They obviously haven't been watching all those property programmes going on about how to present your house to get a sale!

If I go to view a house where lots of small but obvious things have been neglected, it makes me think that the big and important stuff is likely to have been neglected too.

There is one couple near me who bought their house in 2003 (so bought well before the peak in prices) who have now had it up for sale for at least 4 years without success. I know for a fact they have done absolutely nothing to it except a bit of painting since they bought it. They have finally bowed to the inevitable and reduced the price a couple of months ago, but it is still well above what 2 other houses nearby (one actually next door so they can't fail to see the comparison) have sold for within the last year. They are still holding out for a higher price, although they wouldn't have made a loss if they sold for less, despite the fact that the wife has been virtually unable to leave the house for months as she is awaiting a hip replacement and where we live is anything but ideal for someone in that position. I just can't understand people being that intransigent.

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we know a couple who have just gone back to the UK, their house here is on the market, we have just found out that it has been on the market for over 4 years !
They have dropped the price by a massive €110k, and still looking for €200k. Problems are it was poorly converted, knocking down and starting again is a cost comparable to sorting out all the problems with the existing build, and quicker.
It has a beautiful view out but the view every morning has been outweighed by the letters from the bank about the outstanding mortgage.

But we have seen a lovely house, needed a very little bit of work done, but it is on the edge of a mountain village, we couldnt see the plinth it should be built on and the current owner has more props holding back parts of the slope behind than I would like. It was a house to die for, met all the specifications of BH and me, but we left with a feeling that would be a money pit or it would just slide down the slope one day when it rained hard. We won't even bother to pay for a survey, gut feel has proved useful in the past.

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Are you house hunting Domino?

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no, they are out of season
but we are looking
:D