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Old Oct 18th 2011 | 11:23 pm
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Default Re: House building

Originally Posted by HBG
I have a typical Spanish chalet (villa) built 30 years ago. We use minimal fans in the summer to keep cool (we don't like air conditioning) and minimal heating in the winter to keep warm - one gas heater.

We are able to do this because we are near to the coast and away from the mountains. Our friends who live inland need to cater for the vast differences in temperatures between summer and winter, at considerable cost and inconvenience.

We live in an earthquake zone, but there is nothing we can do to help us if such a disaster should strike. Apart from praying.
Absolutely - I think location can be a key factor in how easy it is to keep warm in winter or cool in summer. We live just under 5km inland, in Andalucia. My house (according to the escritura) was built in 1973 but has very thick exterior walls so I suspect it was actually a much older house which was almost totally rebuilt. It is a casa de dos esquinas, ie we have a street running along the front of the house and also along both sides, not joined on to any other houses except by the rear wall of the patio. We've lived here full time for 5 years and have never needed air con in summer, never use a fan downstairs, only in the bedroom on the very hottest days. As we are in quite an elevated position and have windows on all sides of the house (quite big ones for a traditional townhouse) it is very airy and light with all of them open. In the winter we do as many others do and keep the windows open all day until the sun goes down, as the outside air temperature is warmer than the inside. At sunset they are all shut, we too use only one gas heater (usually between December and March) to warm the house. Downstairs the layout is quite open plan, with an open doorway between the living room and kitchen/diner and the staircase going up from the living room, so the heat from the one heater does spread throughout the house. We've never had condensation problems from a gas heater, although many people report that they do. We also have an electric heat/light fitting in the upstairs bathroom for the chilly mornings, whilst showering!

I do wear a jumper or cardigan indoors in the winter evenings, but have never had to resort to watching TV wrapped in a blanket as some forum members say they have to do! It certainly isn't as warm as a centrally heated UK house, but when I go back to stay with relatives now, I find their houses very stuffy and feel drowsy inside.
 
Old Oct 19th 2011 | 8:05 am
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Default Re: House building

As Fred stated this is how my house was built also, and i was the developer, insulated cavity walls, double glazed, roof insulation etc etc floor insulated and damp proof membrane. unfortunately I couldnt afford underfloor heating. the plaster [yeso] is now sprayed on and scraped to a smooth hard finish. the seismic tests with piles dug was actually done before the old house was demolished. I am pretty good at reading plans and I watched everything being done so am happy with the build, the house was finished just over 2 years ago.
 
Old Oct 19th 2011 | 9:09 am
  #18  
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Default Re: House building

As Lynn said, location is everything. My wife was in the swimming pool today, at 21 degrees. two months before Christmas. For weeks now we've used neither cooling or heating and have windows and doors open all day (we've got a Doberman).

We're also five miles inland and can see mountains in the distance on a clear day. It's 11pm and I'm in shorts only. It's about as good as it can get.
 
Old Oct 19th 2011 | 9:21 am
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Default Re: House building

I was in Spain 15 years and was never in the swimming pool after the end of September. Some years mid-september.

When we lived at sea level we found it warmer than when we moved up the hill. 5 mins drive away seemed to make a lot of difference. We had CH but the boiler was inefficient and struggled to get to 23C with a log fire too. Sometimes during January cold spells we had 2 log fires and CH. When the CH was off it only took about a half hour to return to cold even though we had double glazing.
 
Old Oct 19th 2011 | 10:16 am
  #20  
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Default Re: House building

Originally Posted by jackytoo
I was in Spain 15 years and was never in the swimming pool after the end of September. Some years mid-september.

When we lived at sea level we found it warmer than when we moved up the hill. 5 mins drive away seemed to make a lot of difference. We had CH but the boiler was inefficient and struggled to get to 23C with a log fire too. Sometimes during January cold spells we had 2 log fires and CH. When the CH was off it only took about a half hour to return to cold even though we had double glazing.
I lived on the CDS 21 years ago, and loved it, but couldn't afford a swimming pool at that time. I found a vast difference between Estepona and Mijas Costa where I lived, and places like Coin just a few miles inland, temperature wise. Even Casares, still Spanish in those days, was much colder than the coast, and you could almost walk to it.

But the CDS has a steep mountain range immediately behind the coast at Benalmadena, It's concreted over now, but the temperatures below are still much higher than on the other side.

I've never been in my pool in October, I'm thin skinned, pool wise, and if I say any more I'll be telling more of the truth than I should on a public forum.
 
Old Oct 20th 2011 | 10:08 pm
  #21  
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Default Re: House building

As has been said by more than one person in the past few persons, location is everything. This morning I decided last night would be the last night with just a duvet cover and sheets. Until I realised the window had been left open. Might last a few more days without the duvet. With the warm days the house has been fine though the nights need the door shut now, and I can open the shutters to let daylight in for the first time in months (OH prefers the traditional method of keeping the summer heat out, which undeniably works). But we're at 590 metres and it won't be long before the woodburner will be burning every evening, eventually kept in night and day. The house, maybe 150 years old and with walls sometimes 80+cm thick, was reformed about 10 or 12 years ago by someone wanting it for holiday use, so no thought of installing central heating or secondary double glazing or draught excluders or etc etc. And though it's very nicely done, a lack of internal doors means heat doesn't stay in the main living area.
As I drive to and from Malaga on a daily basis, I know the temperature differentials quite accurately, and discounting Saharan wind effects, etc., height seems to be the single most important factor. Even between home and the pueblo (higher than us) there can be a couple of degrees difference. Usually only in the height of summer is it possible it'll be hotter at home than at the coast. At the moment it's anything from 2 to 10 degrees warmer at the coast, but that in turn depends on the time of day! Torrequebrada will be cooler than the M-way above Arroyo de la Miel, which will be cooler than Malaga. Just behind Malaga going up towards the tunnels on the A45 will be hottest.
In the winter, there is a frost pocket (occasionally literally) around Casabermeja where it's already dipped to 12 several mornings.

As to the pool, sadly some black algae or other problem has put paid to our pool swimming this year but we were in the sea at Malaga (Banos del Carmen, right little suntrap if a bit small and noisy!!) on Wednesday. Previously unheard of for me
 
Old Oct 20th 2011 | 10:18 pm
  #22  
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Default Re: House building

Originally Posted by jackytoo
I was in Spain 15 years and was never in the swimming pool after the end of September. Some years mid-september.

When we lived at sea level we found it warmer than when we moved up the hill. 5 mins drive away seemed to make a lot of difference. We had CH but the boiler was inefficient and struggled to get to 23C with a log fire too. Sometimes during January cold spells we had 2 log fires and CH. When the CH was off it only took about a half hour to return to cold even though we had double glazing.
Girl, where did you live? You didn't make a mistake and move to the wrong country? The polar bears might have been a clue......

Kidding aside, where were you? I know there's a considerable variation between areas, but that's a lot. Did you go much below freezing in the winter, and for how long please?
 
Old Oct 20th 2011 | 10:23 pm
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Default Re: House building

Originally Posted by bil
Girl, where did you live? You didn't make a mistake and move to the wrong country? The polar bears might have been a clue......

Kidding aside, where were you? I know there's a considerable variation between areas, but that's a lot. Did you go much below freezing in the winter, and for how long please?
There's variation between areas, and houses. To have inefficient CH is either bad planning or bad luck but regardless, I can easily relate to a struggle to get into the 20s degC. And depending on the house, it could easily cool very rapidly.
 
Old Oct 21st 2011 | 1:39 am
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The CH was installed sometime in the late 80's and we inherited it. Had some quotes to replace it a couple of years ago which were VERY expensive, especially in a falling housing market! An extention we had only had the AC/heat units. Fires in the lounge and dining room but only 1 radiator in each and the rooms were large. Was reasonably warm but cost a lot to heat and as soon as we switched it off it was cold in the night. Only had actual freezing a handful of times in all the years. I do like to be warm though. I only visited a few homes that I would say were really warm in winter unless you were sat on top of the fire and I also knew some who sat in blankets to watch TV. Have even been in houses that were damp and felt as if I had wet myself when I stood up House was quite high, sea facing on one side and open country and sierra de los nieves on another and it had a lot of patio/french doors to bedrooms.

As for swimming, have been in the pool at 21C but wasn't comfortable. We had heat pumps for the pool, that was crap too. Fiona you will get more than a chill at that beach, ever read about it
 
Old Oct 21st 2011 | 2:28 am
  #25  
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Default Re: House building

You don't need to travel very far inland or very high up to experience quite a temperature difference, mid winter especially.

Personally I would never consider an inland location more than 300 mtrs asl.if it was 20 kms or more from the coast.
 
Old Oct 21st 2011 | 2:42 am
  #26  
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Default Re: House building

Originally Posted by jackytoo
The CH was installed sometime in the late 80's and we inherited it. Had some quotes to replace it a couple of years ago which were VERY expensive, especially in a falling housing market! An extention we had only had the AC/heat units. Fires in the lounge and dining room but only 1 radiator in each and the rooms were large. Was reasonably warm but cost a lot to heat and as soon as we switched it off it was cold in the night. Only had actual freezing a handful of times in all the years. I do like to be warm though. I only visited a few homes that I would say were really warm in winter unless you were sat on top of the fire and I also knew some who sat in blankets to watch TV. Have even been in houses that were damp and felt as if I had wet myself when I stood up House was quite high, sea facing on one side and open country and sierra de los nieves on another and it had a lot of patio/french doors to bedrooms.

As for swimming, have been in the pool at 21C but wasn't comfortable. We had heat pumps for the pool, that was crap too. Fiona you will get more than a chill at that beach, ever read about it
If you only had a couple of frosts, then that sounds a bit like where we are.

We have a very trad Spanish house, but it doesn't get cold very quickly, and seems to possess enough thermal mass to retain heat for quite some time.

Plus, one woodburner keeps us warm with no central heating, and at times we have to open the door to the outside, if I have left the air to the stove open for too long.
 
Old Oct 21st 2011 | 4:29 am
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Default Re: House building

Originally Posted by bil
If you only had a couple of frosts, then that sounds a bit like where we are.

We have a very trad Spanish house, but it doesn't get cold very quickly, and seems to possess enough thermal mass to retain heat for quite some time.

Plus, one woodburner keeps us warm with no central heating, and at times we have to open the door to the outside, if I have left the air to the stove open for too long.
I know we all probably talk about cold winters etc to the extent that people assume it's by way of complaint. I don't think it is, it's just the typical British tendency to talk about weather & temperature whether it's 40deg in the summer or 10 below in the winter! I guess the variants between all our houses are just too great to make any kinds of generalisation. Our house is detached, too many different wall corners etc outside to explain, about 8 separate bits of roof, five external doors, blah blah plus no internal doors between any of the main living space, which in running length from passage through room to room must run about 17 or more metres. There's a craply inefficient corner-fitted built-in woodburner in the living room which heats less than a quarter of that room on a good day. Very attractive, very high, ceiling. Warmer up there! We can't get a single room what any 'typical' Brit would consider 'warm' through possibly November-March, depending, without many hours of heating and judicious use of the many floor length curtains. Not complaining, you understand, just attempting to explain how it can be that an old, thick-walled, Spanish property can be cold in winter despite or perhaps because of the heat sink/cold sink properties of those very walls!
All (old) houses are different.......
 
Old Oct 21st 2011 | 4:33 am
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Default Re: House building

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly
You don't need to travel very far inland or very high up to experience quite a temperature difference, mid winter especially.

Personally I would never consider an inland location more than 300 mtrs asl.if it was 20 kms or more from the coast.
and don't we know it in Granada, with being 80k inland and 750m asl, with a 3,500m mountain in the way of the rising sun.
we are already experiencing large temperature swings day vs night
 
Old Oct 21st 2011 | 4:37 am
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Default Re: House building

Originally Posted by jackytoo
I was in Spain 15 years and was never in the swimming pool after the end of September. Some years mid-september.

When we lived at sea level we found it warmer than when we moved up the hill. 5 mins drive away seemed to make a lot of difference. We had CH but the boiler was inefficient and struggled to get to 23C with a log fire too. Sometimes during January cold spells we had 2 log fires and CH. When the CH was off it only took about a half hour to return to cold even though we had double glazing.
Can you repost this in the DWP site forum in the winter fuel allowence thread.
 
Old Oct 21st 2011 | 6:41 am
  #30  
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Default Re: House building

Originally Posted by fionamw
I know we all probably talk about cold winters etc to the extent that people assume it's by way of complaint. I don't think it is, it's just the typical British tendency to talk about weather & temperature whether it's 40deg in the summer or 10 below in the winter! I guess the variants between all our houses are just too great to make any kinds of generalisation. Our house is detached, too many different wall corners etc outside to explain, about 8 separate bits of roof, five external doors, blah blah plus no internal doors between any of the main living space, which in running length from passage through room to room must run about 17 or more metres. There's a craply inefficient corner-fitted built-in woodburner in the living room which heats less than a quarter of that room on a good day. Very attractive, very high, ceiling. Warmer up there! We can't get a single room what any 'typical' Brit would consider 'warm' through possibly November-March, depending, without many hours of heating and judicious use of the many floor length curtains. Not complaining, you understand, just attempting to explain how it can be that an old, thick-walled, Spanish property can be cold in winter despite or perhaps because of the heat sink/cold sink properties of those very walls!
All (old) houses are different.......
I think I may have identified your problem. It's highlighted in red.

If you have (sorry) a shit woodburner, then how are you going to get warm. In comparison with what I could get in the UK, our woodburner is second rate, but it's the best I could get here, and because I have it free standing, it will turn the room into an oven on the coldest day. Put simply, for the vast majority of the day, the fire is on low, except in the evening when it's on medium or low. If I ran that at full tilt, I simply couldn't bear to be in the room. In addition, I long ago realised that burning it thru the night was just a waste of fuel. We burn it almost out at night, and it isn't relit till the sun goes down.
 


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