highs & lows of spain
Apr 25th 2004, 3:08 pm
#16
Maño-Americano
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: In the heart of the Ozarks
Posts: 10,216
Originally posted by ESMCCa
I think sites like this are incredibly valuable in letting us that are considering the move see it from all points of view. I think it depends on your attitude, and the plans you make before you go as much as fitting in when you get there.
Hubbie and I are planning to make the move in the next two years (fingers crossed next March..) and are doing everything we can to prepare, including learning Spanish (and we are going to Mallorca, so will have to learn Mallorquin eventually too). We plan to rent out our house in the UK so that at least we still have a foot on the UK housing market, and a place to return to should it not work out...although we realise it may take a few years before we can decide whether it was a good thing to do or not. There will be good things and bad things.
One site I would recommend looking at is www.bbc.co.uk/getanewlife it's the people who did the programme giving advice on moving abroad, and it basically suggests you make a list of the reasons you are going just to see whether you are being realistic or idealistic or romantic.
I've invested in literature too (Living and Working in Spain) so we are educated as much as we can, without annoying our ex-pat friends living there too much by asking a million questions on a weekly basis.
It's through sites like this that people like us can make a new life for ourselves, and make it work out thanks to the advice and mistakes and positive choices others have made and chosen to share.
I think sites like this are incredibly valuable in letting us that are considering the move see it from all points of view. I think it depends on your attitude, and the plans you make before you go as much as fitting in when you get there.
Hubbie and I are planning to make the move in the next two years (fingers crossed next March..) and are doing everything we can to prepare, including learning Spanish (and we are going to Mallorca, so will have to learn Mallorquin eventually too). We plan to rent out our house in the UK so that at least we still have a foot on the UK housing market, and a place to return to should it not work out...although we realise it may take a few years before we can decide whether it was a good thing to do or not. There will be good things and bad things.
One site I would recommend looking at is www.bbc.co.uk/getanewlife it's the people who did the programme giving advice on moving abroad, and it basically suggests you make a list of the reasons you are going just to see whether you are being realistic or idealistic or romantic.
I've invested in literature too (Living and Working in Spain) so we are educated as much as we can, without annoying our ex-pat friends living there too much by asking a million questions on a weekly basis.
It's through sites like this that people like us can make a new life for ourselves, and make it work out thanks to the advice and mistakes and positive choices others have made and chosen to share.
I would also recomend reading any book you can about Spain, it's people and history. Spain has a complicated political climate- and most of the roots go back to the Civil War she suffered in 1936-39 and the Franco regime that ruled there for the next 35 years.
Books such as Jose Camilo Cela's- "La Colmena" (The Hive), or "The Family of Pasucal Duarte" or "Viajes Al Alcarria" (Trips to Alcarria) , James Michner's "Iberia", or other works by authors such as: Pio Baroja, Vicente Blasco Ibañez , Miguel Delibes; Mariano Jose de Larra (Articles).
Any Brit or American would be put off if someone moved to our country without knowing a damn thing about us or our country- Spaniards are no different. If one shows a knowledge (even limited) of their Society, they will be grateful and welcome you into their circle with open arms.
As for those who go there not intending to eat the local foods etc.- you are fools and will miss the best food in the world. Go into any off the beaton path Cafe that has "Menu del Dia" and eat their foor, drink the wine...compliment the cook. Go to the local "old man's" bar on the corner and have a carajillo (expresso and brandy) and a copa... eat tapas, let them see you as one who enjoys their customs.
Another thing to remember is that Spain should not be thought of as one homogenous country- in fact it is more like a commonwealth of diverse regions- From the "core spaniards" in Casitlla/Leon-Aragon-La Rioja-Andalucia- Castilla la Mancha to the Basques in the north, to the Catalanes/Valencianos/Mallorquines/Alicantinos on the coast, The Basques in the north, Gallegos in the north-west there is a tremendous regional influence/pride. So much so that I believe it may eventually tear spain apart- The Basques, Catalanes and gallegos are all crying out for their independence from the central government. To hang out a Spanish national flag in Spain is a huge no-no... one is viewed as a Facist- another holdover from the Franco era. Now, at the world cup or other footbal/sporting events... all are one- not surprisingly. I suppose GB is not too different, with the Scots, Welsh, Irish etc seperatists.
In the end, you will only get out of your experience what you put into it.
Aug 23rd 2006, 9:49 pm
#17
Just Joined
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11
Re: highs & lows of spain
Originally Posted by muttymutt
Just thinking about my last post, i was extremely negative, but i wish we had had people telling us exactly how they found spain before we made the leap.
There are some pluses for being out here though (these are only based on what weve found in our area. For example (the obvious) weather, its lovely except in the winter when it does get cold and in the months when it rains, it really DOES rain for a few days then it stops. we have just had central heating installed because a wood burner is all well and good for heating up a couple of rooms but the whole house is a different matter. then in the summer it gets very hot and very difficult to do odd jobs in the house/garden. i enjoy gardening to an extent but in the summer its best to stay in the pool, indoors or on the beach!!
seondly, if you have a sweet tooth Spain is the place for you, they are chocolate mad!!!!!! we can get cadburys out here but otherwise its milka or nestle, which isn't too bad. spanish food i think is lovely, especiallt their menu of the day. you get tons of food usually 3 courses plus a coffee and a bottle of wine for 6 euros(hence the reason they siesta cos their tummys are too full and there brains a bit worse for wear!!!) you can get most english food out here, the only thing is t-bags although you can get them they are quite expensive so make sure you pack tons of them before you get here!!!
restaurants are on a whole lovely, and very, very child friendly!! which is lovely after living in the UK. infact most of spain, shops, restaurants, supermarkets etc are very child friendly. get you children usued to staying up late!! they eat very late and it has taken our two quite a while to get used to giving up on lots of sleep!!
The one big difference we have found is that although they are child friendly, you don't see lots of children playing out together in the streets. Where we lived in the uk we had a huge park outside ours and it was always full, here our children have had to get used to playing together as there aren't many children around our way.
so i'm sorry there are some highs for living here but try to weigh up both sides before you jump!!
There are some pluses for being out here though (these are only based on what weve found in our area. For example (the obvious) weather, its lovely except in the winter when it does get cold and in the months when it rains, it really DOES rain for a few days then it stops. we have just had central heating installed because a wood burner is all well and good for heating up a couple of rooms but the whole house is a different matter. then in the summer it gets very hot and very difficult to do odd jobs in the house/garden. i enjoy gardening to an extent but in the summer its best to stay in the pool, indoors or on the beach!!
seondly, if you have a sweet tooth Spain is the place for you, they are chocolate mad!!!!!! we can get cadburys out here but otherwise its milka or nestle, which isn't too bad. spanish food i think is lovely, especiallt their menu of the day. you get tons of food usually 3 courses plus a coffee and a bottle of wine for 6 euros(hence the reason they siesta cos their tummys are too full and there brains a bit worse for wear!!!) you can get most english food out here, the only thing is t-bags although you can get them they are quite expensive so make sure you pack tons of them before you get here!!!
restaurants are on a whole lovely, and very, very child friendly!! which is lovely after living in the UK. infact most of spain, shops, restaurants, supermarkets etc are very child friendly. get you children usued to staying up late!! they eat very late and it has taken our two quite a while to get used to giving up on lots of sleep!!
The one big difference we have found is that although they are child friendly, you don't see lots of children playing out together in the streets. Where we lived in the uk we had a huge park outside ours and it was always full, here our children have had to get used to playing together as there aren't many children around our way.
so i'm sorry there are some highs for living here but try to weigh up both sides before you jump!!
Bopsy
Aug 23rd 2006, 11:26 pm
#18
Straw Man.
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: That, there, that's not my post count... nothing to see here, move along.
Posts: 46,302
Re: highs & lows of spain
Originally Posted by VanishingDragon
Hi 5thbeatle
I personally dont find the Spanish that friendly. My parents own an apartment around the Marbella area and I have been on holiday with them. Its nice and hot but the spanish seem to moan and whinge a lot. Although I have personally found the Catalunyans the most friendly.
Another problem is the fact that Spain is now ruled by a socialist government.
Its a problem for me because im a born again Christian and take tremendous pride in my belief in Christianity and dont want any oppression against me just because of my beliefs.
You might be thinking im sounding a little paranoid but i really dont think so. Socialism has a really bad human rights track record in countries like Russia, Cuba, Zimbabwe China, Cambodia and other especially in regard toward any religous beliefes. unfortunately it(socialism) has now achieved power in Spain.
I personally dont find the Spanish that friendly. My parents own an apartment around the Marbella area and I have been on holiday with them. Its nice and hot but the spanish seem to moan and whinge a lot. Although I have personally found the Catalunyans the most friendly.
Another problem is the fact that Spain is now ruled by a socialist government.
Its a problem for me because im a born again Christian and take tremendous pride in my belief in Christianity and dont want any oppression against me just because of my beliefs.
You might be thinking im sounding a little paranoid but i really dont think so. Socialism has a really bad human rights track record in countries like Russia, Cuba, Zimbabwe China, Cambodia and other especially in regard toward any religous beliefes. unfortunately it(socialism) has now achieved power in Spain.
I really dont mean to but in as i usually am found on another forum but having lived in Spain for a few years i keep an eye on this forum as well, it is quite interesting. I fully accept that Spain has now acquired itself a socialist government but it has been largely by default and if you think it will change a thing you need to look a little deeper into Spain's not too distant past to see that the church has always been at the heart of the changing face of Spain, it has ridden out the bad years, and has seen off detractors and despots alike, Infact the self same people have ended up courting the church for the obvious reason that it needed its support. Dont get me wrong, i come from a very confusing mix of Jewish,protestant and atheist parentage but to assume that Spain is likely to follow the UK with its anti Church, anti faith ideas shows, in my humble opinion that you fail to see the deeper Spain. And as for the socialist government lets see what happens next election time, Zapatero has failed to live up to his own rhetoric or deliver on Spain's inherent problems! As i said sorry to but in. Spain is the same as any country, its exactly what you make it.
Aug 24th 2006, 8:49 am
#19
Sun, Sea & Sangria.
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: Marbella
Posts: 142
Re: highs & lows of spain
Originally Posted by rugbymatt
Spain is the same as any country, its exactly what you make it.
Aug 24th 2006, 8:51 am
#20
Straw Man.
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: That, there, that's not my post count... nothing to see here, move along.
Posts: 46,302
Re: highs & lows of spain
Originally Posted by BritBull
As is life
Absolutely!!!
Aug 24th 2006, 9:01 am
#21
BE Forum Addict
Joined: May 2004
Location: Guadalhorce Valley, Málaga
Posts: 1,059
Re: highs & lows of spain
The thing that says it all about 'Zapatero' is the fact that he uses his second surname to identify himself because 'Rodriguez', his first surname which is the one Spaniards use principally, is too common. Thankfully his bunch of clowns are well over halfway through their period of office and, hopefully, will be returned to oblivion after the next election in 2008. It is rather more of a vain hope that Manuel Chaves will follow him.
Having said that, we moved to Spain in the early 1980s, shortly after the last attempted coup d'état but both my wife and myself could already speak Spanish and were readily accepted into the community. We brought enough money to live on for at least two years in case we didn't make it and already owned a small apartment outright. We now have far more Spanish friends that foreign ones and I have not set foot outside of the country for eleven years.
The success of your move depends entirely on your mindset. In my opinion using a so-called relocation agency is a waste of time and money and bringing UK television with you is a recipe for disaster. If all you want to do is sit in the sun sipping gin and tonics and watching Coronation Street on the telly then don't bother.
Jobs are difficult to come by and unless you have something special to offer starting your own business can lead to financial ruin.
If you believe statistics, more than half the people who come to live in Spain return to the UK within the first year. Not an encouraging thought.
Having said that, we moved to Spain in the early 1980s, shortly after the last attempted coup d'état but both my wife and myself could already speak Spanish and were readily accepted into the community. We brought enough money to live on for at least two years in case we didn't make it and already owned a small apartment outright. We now have far more Spanish friends that foreign ones and I have not set foot outside of the country for eleven years.
The success of your move depends entirely on your mindset. In my opinion using a so-called relocation agency is a waste of time and money and bringing UK television with you is a recipe for disaster. If all you want to do is sit in the sun sipping gin and tonics and watching Coronation Street on the telly then don't bother.
Jobs are difficult to come by and unless you have something special to offer starting your own business can lead to financial ruin.
If you believe statistics, more than half the people who come to live in Spain return to the UK within the first year. Not an encouraging thought.
Aug 24th 2006, 10:23 am
#22
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Nov 2003
Location: Chiclana
Posts: 3,327
Re: highs & lows of spain
Originally Posted by rugbymatt
I really dont mean to but in as i usually am found on another forum but having lived in Spain for a few years i keep an eye on this forum as well, it is quite interesting. I fully accept that Spain has now acquired itself a socialist government but it has been largely by default and if you think it will change a thing you need to look a little deeper into Spain's not too distant past to see that the church has always been at the heart of the changing face of Spain, it has ridden out the bad years, and has seen off detractors and despots alike, Infact the self same people have ended up courting the church for the obvious reason that it needed its support. Dont get me wrong, i come from a very confusing mix of Jewish,protestant and atheist parentage but to assume that Spain is likely to follow the UK with its anti Church, anti faith ideas shows, in my humble opinion that you fail to see the deeper Spain. And as for the socialist government lets see what happens next election time, Zapatero has failed to live up to his own rhetoric or deliver on Spain's inherent problems! As i said sorry to but in. Spain is the same as any country, its exactly what you make it.
Aug 24th 2006, 10:23 am
#23
Forum Regular
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: locating to spain
Posts: 279
Re: thanks to all ...
Originally Posted by 5thbeatle
who have posted up to now. i'm under no illusion that things could be difficult startting a new life in spain hence the much needed advice.
i've read many a horror story with regards to buying property in spain as well as having work done on your property so if we did take the plunge we would probably rent for the 1st 6 months or so until we we're confident in making a purchase.
another priority is schooling for my 4 year old. i'd like him be be bi-lingual at least but i get the impression that the spanish state schools are not up to scratch ?. What are the typical fees for the international schools ?.
I was well aware of the catalans & basques insistence to use their mother tongue but not the valencians (sic) !. probably best to progress with my castillion for now which is improving all the time. having spent several weeks in madrid during the latter part of last year the spanish on the whole do make an effort to meet you halfway when it comes to the language.
i do admire the spanish way of life though; child friendy,family orientated, the food, wine, football, their love of life ...etc ...etc although i do find spanish males to be mummys boys !!!
all in all after weighing up the positives & negatives we're probably going to give it a go, possibly in the malaga area where a new technology park is bringing a lot of hi-tech companies in.
would still be very interested though for more comments and suggestions
i've read many a horror story with regards to buying property in spain as well as having work done on your property so if we did take the plunge we would probably rent for the 1st 6 months or so until we we're confident in making a purchase.
another priority is schooling for my 4 year old. i'd like him be be bi-lingual at least but i get the impression that the spanish state schools are not up to scratch ?. What are the typical fees for the international schools ?.
I was well aware of the catalans & basques insistence to use their mother tongue but not the valencians (sic) !. probably best to progress with my castillion for now which is improving all the time. having spent several weeks in madrid during the latter part of last year the spanish on the whole do make an effort to meet you halfway when it comes to the language.
i do admire the spanish way of life though; child friendy,family orientated, the food, wine, football, their love of life ...etc ...etc although i do find spanish males to be mummys boys !!!
all in all after weighing up the positives & negatives we're probably going to give it a go, possibly in the malaga area where a new technology park is bringing a lot of hi-tech companies in.
would still be very interested though for more comments and suggestions
However i did look in to private schooling in marbella near to where we will be moving to.
Fees start at £2960.00 for year 7 and up to £6145.00 for year 12 and 13 this is for the year and does not include exams and books and school meals :scared:
We know it is going to be very hard and to adjust but we are in a spanish town and we will have to fit in with them i am very excited and how i look at it, if things go wrong england will always be here :scared:
Good luck with what ever you decide to do.
Aug 24th 2006, 10:37 am
#24
Straw Man.
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: That, there, that's not my post count... nothing to see here, move along.
Posts: 46,302
Re: highs & lows of spain
Originally Posted by glynis
What´s the other forum?
Iment another part of this forum, we are looking into moving to move to Australia or New zealand
Aug 24th 2006, 12:31 pm
#25
Senior Moment
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: On the edge
Posts: 20,460
Re: highs & lows of spain
Originally Posted by Beachcomber
The success of your move depends entirely on your mindset. In my opinion using a so-called relocation agency is a waste of time and money and bringing UK television with you is a recipe for disaster. If all you want to do is sit in the sun sipping gin and tonics and watching Coronation Street on the telly then don't bother. If you believe statistics, more than half the people who come to live in Spain return to the UK within the first year. Not an encouraging thought.
From what I have ascertained over that period, it seems to me that retirees have a much much better chance of making it than those that come over to seek work. If you already have something sorted then thats a real plus, but to come over on the offchance of gaining work unless you have a lot of backup cash is imho an error of judgement.
Also, I really cant bear the "this wouldn't have happened in England" syndrome that I come accross from time to time. Your in Spain! Get used to it!
Aug 24th 2006, 1:16 pm
#26
BE Forum Addict
Joined: May 2004
Location: Guadalhorce Valley, Málaga
Posts: 1,059
Re: highs & lows of spain
Originally Posted by Mitzyboy
....Also, I really cant bear the "this wouldn't have happened in England" syndrome that I come accross from time to time. Your in Spain! Get used to it!
Aug 24th 2006, 3:03 pm
#27
Concierge
Joined: May 2006
Location: ex ex-pat, in Taunton
Posts: 27,212
Re: highs & lows of spain
Originally Posted by Beachcomber
The thing that says it all about 'Zapatero' is the fact that he uses his second surname to identify himself because 'Rodriguez', his first surname which is the one Spaniards use principally, is too common. Thankfully his bunch of clowns are well over halfway through their period of office and, hopefully, will be returned to oblivion after the next election in 2008. It is rather more of a vain hope that Manuel Chaves will follow him.
Having said that, we moved to Spain in the early 1980s, shortly after the last attempted coup d'état but both my wife and myself could already speak Spanish and were readily accepted into the community. We brought enough money to live on for at least two years in case we didn't make it and already owned a small apartment outright. We now have far more Spanish friends that foreign ones and I have not set foot outside of the country for eleven years.
The success of your move depends entirely on your mindset. In my opinion using a so-called relocation agency is a waste of time and money and bringing UK television with you is a recipe for disaster. If all you want to do is sit in the sun sipping gin and tonics and watching Coronation Street on the telly then don't bother.
Jobs are difficult to come by and unless you have something special to offer starting your own business can lead to financial ruin.
If you believe statistics, more than half the people who come to live in Spain return to the UK within the first year. Not an encouraging thought.
Having said that, we moved to Spain in the early 1980s, shortly after the last attempted coup d'état but both my wife and myself could already speak Spanish and were readily accepted into the community. We brought enough money to live on for at least two years in case we didn't make it and already owned a small apartment outright. We now have far more Spanish friends that foreign ones and I have not set foot outside of the country for eleven years.
The success of your move depends entirely on your mindset. In my opinion using a so-called relocation agency is a waste of time and money and bringing UK television with you is a recipe for disaster. If all you want to do is sit in the sun sipping gin and tonics and watching Coronation Street on the telly then don't bother.
Jobs are difficult to come by and unless you have something special to offer starting your own business can lead to financial ruin.
If you believe statistics, more than half the people who come to live in Spain return to the UK within the first year. Not an encouraging thought.
Sep 19th 2006, 12:58 am
#28
Banned
Joined: Sep 2006
Location: Kent UK
Posts: 292
Re: highs & lows of spain
Originally Posted by rugbymatt
Iment another part of this forum, we are looking into moving to move to Australia or New zealand
Sep 19th 2006, 3:14 am
#29
Australia's Doorman
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: The Shoalhaven, New South Wales, Australia
Posts: 11,056
Re: highs & lows of spain
Originally Posted by Bossman-kent
Why go there ? Spain is better
Sep 19th 2006, 4:14 am
#30
Banned
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: Godzone, utopia, Paradise Island under the sun.
Posts: 1,177
Re: highs & lows of spain
Originally Posted by Bossman-kent
Why go there ? Spain is better