Hi All

Have been following the forum for a while and decided to finally take the plunge and sign up !

My partner Lisa and I have just bought a villa in Javea and if everything goes to plan will be moving out permanently in August this year.

The villa is about 50 years old and on rustic land (near Montgo) and not a modern urbanisation.

The electrics in the house are quite basic and old so we are having a rewire before we go out in August.

However the supply to the house is only contracted at 3.3KW and apparently we would require a fair bit of (costly) work to be done by Iberdorla to go any higher.

Some people have said that we should be able to manage fine on 3.3KW and other people have said we should upgrade, and so I was wondering if anyone here manages on 3.3KW ? (it's just us no kids etc)

Thanks in advance for any help

Paul

Hi and a warm welcome to the Spanish forum on BE. Myself and Fred James are the moderators for the Spanish forums whilst BEVS moderates Europe. Moderators are there to ensure that the site runs smoothly within the rules of BE. This is so that members gain the information that they are looking for and find their experiences on the forums to be friendly and worthwhile.

Problems and complaints should always be addressed to a moderator who will look into the matter and deal with it efficiently and fairly. Our members who post in the Spain Forums are usually friendly and helpful with a wealth of knowledge about the issues of living in Spain. I hope that you enjoy your time participating in the forums.

Please let me know if you need any further help.

Rosemary

It may just possible to get away with 3.3kw if you have gas heating and cooking and are careful what appliances are on at any given time. A kettle and an iron on at the same time will probably trip the circuit.
I am all electric in an old town house of c135m2 and have a potencia of 5.75kw. It's generally ok in the summer but does trip out occasionally in the winter, usually when I put the kettle on!
You only have to add up the wattage of your appliances, it does not take much to get to 3.3kw.

If you are having a complete rewire, then there is NOTHING for Iberdrola to do other upgrade the ICP and the power to your villa.

I presume that you will be getting a new boletin from your Spanish electrician as part of the rewire?



In rare cases, Ibedrola might not be able to give you more power as the existing wires to your property won't/can't carry any more - but this is rare!

I would say, try and go for 5.75kW and see what the estimate is from Iberdrola.

Thanks for replies all

snikpoh - the villa is being rewired by an electrician (for about 4,000 euros) firstly/primarily to make it completely safe.

In advance of the rewire our electrician also opened up a file query with Iberdrola about the potential to upgrade the level of supply.

Unfortunately Iberdrola have come back and said they would require just under 7,000 euros of work to be done before they would allow any upgrade (new cables, meter and post) plus the electrician has said that he would also need to upgrade the cables from the new meter to the house at a further additional cost of 1,500 euros (and I have seen the correspondence/quote from Iberdrola so I don't think the electrician is trying it on).

Hence my keenness to see if we could live on a 3.3KW supply (to save c 10,000 euros of extra work).

We were out at the villa over Christmas and the TV satellite electric cooker internet kettle all seemed to work fine (and we do have oil central heating).

Hi, as Ibedrola is saying new pole etc. then I can see how it would get expensive.

I had a voltage drop between the meter at the gates and our 'fuse box' so had to run new cables - a distance of over 100m. I did this with my friendly electrician for only a few hundred euros.


Anyway, the main issue with a potencia that low is what happens when smart meters are introduced - do you know what the minimum potencia is then. It might not be an issue but I just wonder.

If you don't have aircon and don't have an big electric oven and electric hob, then if the system is balanced properly, you should be fine.

Hello. Before buying our own place we stayed regularly over many years at a friends' holiday flat which is on 3.3kw. They have gas heating and cooking, and all the usual electric appliances - washing machine, fridge/freezer, water heater, kettle, toaster, microwave, hairdryer, vacuum, iron, etc. etc. You soon learn what appliances you can run at the same time without the electric tripping out. EG we couldn't run the washing machine and the iron at the same time. But if it tripped out, it was just a question of flicking the switch at the box, and forget about the ironing until the washing machine had finished. It's not ideal, but certainly manageable, we found anyway. However, our friends looked into getting air con, but weren't able to find any unit that would run on their (relatively) low power - I don't know the details, but I do know they had professional advice.

Just a thought

Might be worth exploring the possibility of solar power, I'm not a green nut but in the UK I have a small array of solar panels on the roof which generate over 3kwh in reasonable uk daylight so perhaps a larger array in Spanish sunshine would yield over 3kwh during the day and reliance on the grid would only be needed at night?

My husband has just pointed out that our friends actually have only have a 2.2kw system. So that's less than the OP and we found we could manage on it.


We rely solely on solar power at the moment (which give us 3kw max per day) and we do have to be careful about our total draw on the system at any one time so as not to trip it out - just as we were at our friends' flat. To get more capacity we would need more batteries and they are the most expensive part of the system. It's a balancing act: our system (panels, batteries and associated gizmos) cost 7,000 euros and amply fulfils our needs in the summer, but a just a few consecutive days of bad weather in the winter means the batteries don't fully replenish so our consumption is seriously reduced. We're taking out a small - and quiet - generator next time to give us some back up when the batteries are low). But 3.3kw all day, every day, regardless of the weather, certainly wouldn't be a problem for us.

My UK system is photovoltaic so generates power during daylight bit nothing at night, no batteries for storage. Think its cheaper that way.

Just suggesting it might be OK relying on mains during the night with PV solar during the day, pretty sure PV can generate much more than 3kvh with more panels but you need to use it as you make it

Sure PV can generate 3kw but without batteries you will need a hell of a lot of panels.

PV arrays are usually only 12v. A 3kw array might consist of 15 x 200W panels, and yes, it will produce 3kw of electricity at a point in time, but only at 12V.

If you want an equivalent 240v system then you need 20 times the panels. In this case you would need 300 x 200W panels. That's a lot of roof space to cover.

To power a 1kw electric kettle just using PV panels directly producing 240v you will require 100 x 200W 12v panels. That's 20000W at 12v, or in other words 1000W at 240v.

A 3000W 12v array will only produce 150W of power at 240v, so maybe enough to run an electric fridge during the day, but forget anything else.

Hi Paul,

I'm in Javea... a 3 bed apartment with a supply of about 5.2/5.3 and I often trip the supply using only the kitchen equipment. IMO you need more.

Your sums are good but you get an F- for physics.

I have 11 panels on my roof in the South of England so not as solarly (is that a word) fuelled as Spain.

They are indeed 12v but the system uses an inverter to convert the 12V DC to 230V AC.

Even with the relatively low solar activity here, we generate 3kWh at a time.

With eleven panels.

Your inverter converts 12v to 240v (use 240 instead of 230 because it makes the maths easier). You can't create energy from thin air.

Your 3kw array at 12v is converted to 240v but can only produce equivalent power at 240v.

From my school physics:

P=IV
3000W = I x 12
therefore I = 250 amps

You can't produce more current from the same panels.

3000W = 250 * 230 doesn't work

You are increasing the voltage by a factor of 20 therefore the current generated is reduced by a factor of 20 for the same power output.

3000/240 = 12.5amps

Enough for a single 13amp socket.

Why do I get an F for physics?

Yeah ok, I get an F for physics.

But I stand by my statement that you can't generate energy from thin air.

A 12v panel requires about 17.5v to produce 12v of electric.
By extrapolation a 240v system would require 350v.

Your 3000W array at 17.5v produces

3000W at 17.5v = 170 amps
3000W at 350v = 8.5 amps

A modified sine wave inverter is arount 90% efficient.
A pure sine wave inverter is probably 80% efficient.

8.5amps * 80% = 6.8amps

And that's not taking shade or heat into account.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that a 3000W array might give you around 1.5KW of power at best, for a small part of the day.