bil

That's not what I said. If you burn gas in a room without a flue to vent the products of combustion to the outside, then the products of combustion will stay in the room unless adequately ventilated.

A butane cylinder contains butane, C4H10, which 'weighs' almost 60. Water weighs 18, and a single molecule of butane produces 5 molecules of water which weighs 90. Therefore, for every 60g of gas burnt, 90g of water (= 90 ccs) is produced. So if a cylinder of gas contains 12 kilos of gas, it will produce 18 litres of water.

I can assure you that if you burn a freestander it will make the room very damp, with lots of condensation UNLESS THE ROOM IS ADEQUATELY VENTILATED.

As I keep saying, you need to vent a lot of that warm air to keep the condensation from developing, which makes me wonder just how much of that heat is wasted.

This is a matter of physics and chemistry, not a matter of opinion.

Fredbargate

With other forms of heating, wood burner, open fire etc a very large amount of heat goes up the chimney.

Electric is the only one I can think of that does not need ventilation or a flue.

jimenato

Everything you say here is true but in reality it isn't much of a problem. Say your gas cylinder lasts two weeks (that's about right) then it is producing about 1.2 litres of water per day. 1 person creates more that 1/2 lire just by breathing so a family of three produces more than one heater does. I'm not saying that it can be ignored, but in most homes it's not worth worrying about.

bil

I agree, in a well ventilated house, it's not a problem. Where people cut down on ventilation to save heat, by draught proofing everything in sight, and closing off unused chimneys and so on, that's when the problem starts to surface. Another factor is, are the walls porous or painted with a sealing paint?

bil

OK, but let's compare like with like. An open fire sucks a huge amount of warm air out of the house 24/7.

A wood burner tho is a very different kettle of fish.

First off look at the bore. An open fire will have a minimum bore of 8" diam, which is approx 48 sq inches. A wood burner has a 6" bore, which is 27 sq inches. That means that when the woodburner is running at full bore with the door wide open, can only take 56% as much air out of the room. Realistically, we can call that 50%, as the drag caused by the throat plate, baffles and so on will drop the flow. Plus the drag on the flue walls is greater for a smaller bore.

The open fire sucks air all day long, the wood burner realistically only when in use. (There's a small trickle where seals are not perfect.)

Now let's look at realistic use. The average user doesn't have it on 24/7, and when it is on, it is seldom at full bore. When it is at full bore, the air vent even when fully open for example on mine is 4" x 3/4, ie 3 sq inches. That alone means that the air flow at full tilt is waaaayy below what it would be with just a 6" pipe sucking the air out. We run ours 6 - 8 hours a day, and of that time, the majority of it the stove is at 1/4 open or shut down, with leakage round the seals giving enough air to heat the room.

I can't begin to give an accurate comparison between the two, but I bet you lose from a wood burner a lot less than 10%, than you would from an open fire.

Comparing electric, that is hugely expensive, AND YOU STILL HAVE TO VENTILATE THE HOUSE.

IMO, wood burners win hands down.

EsuriJohn

I have been giving much thought to what the problem is in heating houses in Spain and have concluded that the problem arises because they are designed to be cold. This is not as daft as it seems our house is newly built and fufills all the latest critera of cavity walls with very good insulation DPC in all external walls orientation so that the sun does not cause too much heat gain despite large double glazed windows with a 12mm cavity. Up to the middle of July it is comfortable without aircon then until early September aircon is used in the evening.

I have concluded that underfloor heating is the perfect answer.

snikpoh

Really, how would you run the heating? With gas/electric/solar?

I've always found that underfloor heating is fine as background heat but you really need more in addition for those cold, winter nights.

lynnxa

we have underfloor heating

it's gas powered & & thermometer controlled - we set it to 19º which is enough most of the time & warms up fairly quickly if you want a 'boost' & turn it up, although we try to avoid that, as it seems to take forever to cool down!!!


if I get chilly I use my snuggly

angiescarr

Hi Polly.


The older Spanish have a circular heater under their dining table under a tablecloth. They figure if you're moving around, you're warm enough! That's nice when visiting friends but I wouldn't put up with it full time

It all depends on your room but for a thin walled modern flat my friend, who is Spanish, and has tried everything, uses a mobile (gas bottle) heater. After all it's only for a short time each year and you can ventilate when the sun shines.

In my workshop I use a little electric radiant heater. But that's expensive if used long term. I'm going for underfloor long-term (when I win the lottery!).

Guardamar4me

My personal opinion, based on the three options posed by the original poster, is that mobile gas heaters are by far the cheapest option. We have heated both our previous apartment and now our villa by this method for many years.

The condensation issue has never been a problem. Adequate ventilation over a 24 hour period is simple to achieve.

We have heating air con units, but much more expensive even with inverter units.

jimenato

I have heard that Paraffin heaters are very good and cheap to run and don't smell at all. Remember Aladdin paraffin heaters? Well, they're not like that at all apparently.

The only thing that I've heard bad about them is that they are sometimes too powerful and you have to open a window to let the heat out.

DENISE WALTERS

Never a truer word, its seems always colder indoors than out