Originally Posted by bil (Post 9157350)

Hard water is supposed to be better for you health wise.

Originally Posted by Fred James (Post 9158645)

Yes it is a waste of time for removing cal. The acid dissolves the cal. If you add bicarb it neutralises the acid so you have no acid left to dissolve the cal.

I think the confusion comes from the fact that both bicarb and vinegar are useful household cleaning agents but usually only used individually. Sometimes the vinegar treated surface is washed down with bicarb and vice versa - in both cases one then neutralises the residue of the other.

Using them together will remove any of the benefits of either.

The formula I gave earlier is a slight simplification. Before the reaction is complete there is a short intermediate reaction forming carbonic acid and sodium acetate but I can't think of any reason why that would affect the overall result.

Originally Posted by twistedmelon (Post 9159048)

I thought hard water gave you kidney stones too

Originally Posted by anonimouse (Post 9159000)

Always wondered this.

I'm very surprised, I always think that hard water may give you Kidney stones.

Originally Posted by Fred James (Post 9158645)

Yes it is a waste of time for removing cal. The acid dissolves the cal. If you add bicarb it neutralises the acid so you have no acid left to dissolve the cal.

I think the confusion comes from the fact that both bicarb and vinegar are useful household cleaning agents but usually only used individually. Sometimes the vinegar treated surface is washed down with bicarb and vice versa - in both cases one then neutralises the residue of the other.

Using them together will remove any of the benefits of either.

The formula I gave earlier is a slight simplification. Before the reaction is complete there is a short intermediate reaction forming carbonic acid and sodium acetate but I can't think of any reason why that would affect the overall result.

Originally Posted by anonimouse (Post 9159000)

Always wondered this.

I'm very surprised, I always think that hard water may give you Kidney stones.

Originally Posted by bil (Post 9159318)

Well, I think that not everyone in a hard water area gets kidney stones, or they would be endemic. My suspicions would be that certain people are genetically prone to kidney stones and in hard water areas they will come down with them.

Soft water makes me gag. I have heard that drinking it is connected with heart disease, so go figure.....

Originally Posted by anonimouse (Post 9159323)

What's in bottled water?;)

Originally Posted by bil (Post 9159324)

Therein lies a mystery.

Originally Posted by anonimouse (Post 9159444)

Ah well who cares? I take mine neat anyway:p

Originally Posted by bil (Post 9159314)

Thanks Fred, that's precisely what I thought, but I wanted it confirmed. I have seen severel 'domestic goddesses' on the box doing just this, and every time I have wondered if these people were like so many simply repeating stuff that was way beyond them, and that they lacked the basic knowledge and reasoning to grasp that they were simply repeating bollocks. I did once say it to someone who did mix them, only to be told that 'Soand so does it so it must be right.'

As if.

Originally Posted by twistedmelon (Post 9161393)

I should think most people don't have sufficient knowledge of chemistry to make them distrust what allegedly are professional cleaners on TV.
To say I and many others "lack basic knowledge and reasoning" seems a bit harsh.
We all have our strengths and weaknesses.

Originally Posted by bil (Post 9161408)

I take your point, but it's such basic science that I take it for granted. My old headmaster used to say. 'Learn basic science at least. That way the con men won't be able to deceive you so easily.'

Part of the problems in life is people repeating stuff they are told and never questioning it. You should never take anything for granted. That places you in the hands of the con men, whether they be cleaning salesmen or whatever.

Originally Posted by bil (Post 9161408)

I take your point, but it's such basic science that I take it for granted. My old headmaster used to say. 'Learn basic science at least. That way the con men won't be able to deceive you so easily.'

Part of the problems in life is people repeating stuff they are told and never questioning it. You should never take anything for granted. That places you in the hands of the con men, whether they be cleaning salesmen or whatever.

Originally Posted by John & Kath (Post 9161503)

That explains why sufficient believe the Cam/Clegg/Osbourne to keep them where they are!:confused: