Fredbargate

Madrid in protest over fishing ban

Spain has made a formal complaint over what says is a U-turn on suspension of fishing ban. The 'verbal note' to London insists waters not ceded by Utrecht, according to El Mundo. There were various reports of blatant fishing in Gibraltar waters over Friday night into this morning. Meanwhile there were long delays and traffic chaos at the frontier last night.

http://www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=25766

Pocaloca

This is because Gibraltar has broken the truce it made with Spain on 3 August to allow them to fish until he end of the year.

http://news.yahoo.com/spain-complain...195330690.html

"The government of Gibraltar ... said it was maintaining the ban, citing environmental concerns. Spain said this contravened an agreement Gibraltar made on August 3 to let Spanish boats continue fishing there, and asserted its claim to sovereignty over the waters."

Dick Dasterdly

It's truly amazing, with all those many thousands of kms of ocean to choose from they still insist on making a nuisance of themselves in that miniscule area around Gib.

On the other hand if they've already dredged the rest of the oceans till there's very little left, maybe there's only Gib left to fall back on.

Fredbargate

My understanding is that a report was to be made on the state of fish stock in Gibraltar waters by the 16th August. It seems the Spanish without considering what the report might say took this to mean they could resume fishing on the 16th

http://www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=25755

http://www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=25764

Photo taken at 8;25 pm on the 16th.

EllisG

and the reaction from Franco's green shirted thugs ?

Stop every car crossing the frontier into Spain at 5 o'clock in the afternoon to build up a horrendous queue on the Gib side.

The Royal Navy should do what the Canadian coast guard did to protect their fishing stock being raped by Spanish fishermen (Chinese and Russians were guilty too)....OPEN FIRE!!

Fredbargate

From Panorama
The Preliminary Report is based on the discussions held with members of the Working Group established by the Government and the data provided by Spanish fishermen, Spanish fisheries experts and a number of Gibraltar fishing clubs which have provided detailed data on records of catches.

http://www.panorama.gi/localnews/hea...=9194&offset=0

From GBC
The Chief Minister made clear to representatives of the Spanish fishermen, whom he met in early August, that if the Preliminary Report, which was expected by 16th August, recommended that they should be allowed to fish to enable data collection on Gibraltar specific catches, they would be granted permits to fish to collect this data - in keeping with provisions of the Act

http://www.gbc.gi/news/256/no-fishin...itorial-waters

Fredbargate

Lets close the frontier and put 10,000 Spaniards out of work to satisfy 10 Spanish fishermen

Fredbargate

News at 10 pm Friday

Huge queues at the Frontier resulted in traffic being diverted onto the runway by the Royal Gibraltar Police and Gibraltar Defence Police.

http://www.gbc.gi/news/258/frontier-...-traffic-chaos

EllisG

yeah, I was near the front of that queue sitting still for 1/2 an hour observing the green shirts as they were creating it accompanied by a chorus of car horns from people who could see what they were doing.

Of course the majority of cars and occupants are Spanish workers along with Spanish cars filling up with petrol, tobaccos, booze and baby milk

do those 10 000 workers include those that work for La Linea who weren't being paid for so long and only being fed from the proceeds of their makeshift car park on the border ?

Fredbargate

10,000 is the figure given by a Spanish Union representative and he says that includes contracted and black Spanish labour working in Gib. ( can't remember the union title ) He did not make it clear if ex-pat labour was included or not.
However you must add to that the jobs in Spain that are supported by the wages bought back from Gib, plus the money bought to Spain by Gib residents shopping, drinking and eating in Spain

The unpaid Ayuntamiento workers are of course supported by the car park which would cease to exist if the frontier was closed.

Relampago

Comment what you want about Gibraltar, but don't repeat again more than the Civil Guard (those green shirted thugs that you refer) they represent Franco. I live in a democracy. Try not to forget

And for if you don't know it, Mr demagogue, the Guardia Civil is a militarized police, has more than 150 years, and its color is the green. That is to say, it already existed a lot before Franco's dictatorship. Therefore, so save you your demagoguery, and more when you don't know nor the Guardia Civil's origin

Pirates are in Gibraltar, to allow smuggling, and to be a fiscal paradise, among other things. And more pirates are since Picardo governs. The problems began with this unpresentable

The big mistake that made Spain was to help Gibraltar in 1815 when they suffered a brutal plague of yellow fever

Domino

Perhaps the big mistake was that Wellington didn't take over Spain instead of just kicking out the French. During all his time here he was being attacked by the French but could never understand why he was also being attacked by the Spanish, politically and militarily and by pure incompetence. The factions in Spain that believed the French were friends were the same as the factions in France who felt the same way about the Germans.
In both cases English, Welsh, Scots and Irish all gave their lives for someone elses piece of dusty dirt, so someone else could stab them in the back.

And then the French and Germans come back again and tell everyone the Brits are not good Europeans.

Fredbargate

You do not live in a true democracy, the GC and others still have too much control.
There are recent reports of people being pulled from the frontier queue by GC officers and having three colours of shit kicked out of them for smiling, I have personally witnessed one of these events.

So what you are confirming is that a Spanish military organization has been making incursions into the sovereign waters of another state. I believe in a civilized community that is called WAR.

Fiscal? in this link you will find 18 of the 20 Tax Information Exchange Agreements with other countries. You will note Spain is not included, maybe because in these agreements it is a two way exchange of information and Spain is afraid of what may come to light from her side or are we back to the outdated adage that Gibraltar is not a country, if you use that as an argument then it is Spain alone that does not recognize Gibraltars existence. Therefore Spain's problem.

http://www.gibraltar.gov.gi/tiea

Are you referring to the thousands of Spaniards that cross the frontier regularly to purchase TAX PAID tobacco in order to make a few euros to stop there families from starving. Gibraltar has over the years increased the duty on tobacco and bought in laws to control the amount of tobacco anyone can buy at anyone time in order to HELP SPAIN with this aspect.
However does Spain do anything with respect to goods that are sold cheaper in Spain than Gibraltar and are taken in the opposite direction? i.e Smuggled from Spain into Gibraltar.



Would that be shortly after the British who were using Gibraltar as a base had kicked the French out of Spain. Perhaps that was one of Britain's major mistakes, if we had let Spain become French today's problems would not exist.

You beat me to that bit Domino

Fredbargate

FIELD MARSHAL THE RIGHT HONOURABLE SIR ARTHUR WELLESLEY KG GCB GCH WAS 1ST DUKE OF WELLINGTON

In addition, as a mark of gratefulness for Sir Arthur's service during the War of Independence against the Napoleonic occupation, the Government of Spain donated in perpetuity a country estate which was built at the beginning of the 19th century called “Prince of La Paz”,

The property, also called “the Tower”, occupies all the old Low Meadow of Íllora, a large estate called El Molino del Rey [the King's Mill] which extends to about 12,000 acres.

Notice the term in perpetuity

In the Treaty of Utrecht the Government of Spain signed in perpetuity Gibraltar to Britain.
Gibraltar has only 1680 acres

Seems to make Gibraltar insignificant, I believe there are also other estates

agoreira

Indeed, if it wasn't for the Brits kicking the Frogs out, we wouldn't have needed to learn Spanish nowadays, we 'd all be learning French. At least the Spanish at the time seemed grateful to the Duke of Wellington and bestowed all manner of titles to him, along with some land. But like Gib, the Spanish after having given something, they now want it back. The word of the Spanish is not worth a lot, it seems.

Edit. Fred, you beat me to it!