Hornets_Nest

Posted for info and comments.

As always I don't think generalisations are particularly helpful but there is a little irony in the fact that Brits often accuse other nationalities of not integrating well in the UK.

https://www.euroweeklynews.com/2018/...rate-in-spain/

I suggest people who wish to take up some of the inaccuracies in the article Tweet the author:


@RuqayaIzzidie

Johncarzx

This is not a unique British thing. Ethnic minorities congregate together all over the world. This is mainly due to language, culture and religion. It is usually the racist that make an issue out of this subject, so which ethnic minority would want to integrate with them?.

Hornets_Nest

You brought out the 'Racist' card pretty quick there., aside from that I agree with you that people who have things in common do tend to live in the same areas often for very practical reasons. I also think it is less incumbent on people who retire to a country to integrate as it is for people who move there when they are young. I don't have a problem with UK migrants living in the same area but I do have a problem with the image they seem to have generated in terms of their behaviour as it can make it more difficult for other English speaking people. I suppose that is why many Brits are actually put off by some of the more popular destinations now.

bobd22

I always do find it odd that in the UK some people demand that any foreigner visiting or living there should have the ability to speak English but the same people holiday wherever and never attempt to speak any language other than English. As you say to generalise is wrong as this does not apply to all. I have even heard this from expats in Spain who can't string a Spanish sentence together but believe foreigners in UK should speak English. Integration without speaking a countries language is impossible . However there are of course many reasons for people failing to learn to speak to a decent level the language of their adopted country. Many that make the move to Spain do so late in life learning a language while young is far easier than when older although of course not impossible. Most of us believe we will pick up/learn Spanish but when push comes to shove we then realise that to do so is not easy. Probably only real way is lessons so cost of lessons can become a barrier. Although some ignore even the very basics which are not difficult to learn. Most people from whatever race (again not all) find comfort in mixing with people from their home country. When I was growing up in Yorkshire my best friend's mother was German she did speak English but not fluent, she knew and mixed with other Germans in the local and not too local area. My friend's mother had come to England as the the wife of his father who had served in the Army in Germany not long after WW2 as had many of the German women she mixed with. Many foreign people in UK are settled in the same area due to work being the reason they moved to UK such as Bradford , Dewsbury and the North West of England where Asians initially came to work in the mills etc. That is different to how most of us end up in Spain etc. I certainly see children of British expats that are now young adults fully integrated into Spanish life because they have been brought up there schooled there and their friends and associates are both Spanish and English, their parents however still mainly mix with expats. So many reasons for what this article raises in my view. However we can not get away from the fact that the key to integration is having the language of the country you live in without it you will never have the confidence to really join in with all that your community has to offer. Easier of course to just mix with fellow expsts, which takes us back to the start of my ramble😃

bobd22

Very true John

1sexsmith

Yes as the other poster says it is not unique. It happens with Swedes, Russians etc. The fact that a large number are retired and don't work means there is less likelihood of actually having to adapt to Spanish hours, eating habits, etc. This in turn will lead to associating with like minded groups. I don't think there is anything sinister or premeditated going on. Immigrants in UK probably integrate better as the majority will be actively working and therefore more exposed to the language and habits etc. The only thing I object to is Brits believing that they know everything about Spain and insist on telling you this despite the fact that they a little or no Spanish. There is nothing worse than an non Spanish speaking Brit talking with authority about some legality that they have translated by google

bobd22

The photo in initial post could as easily be people from Germany, Netherlands Scandanavia , Russia etc most people on holiday look the same. If you go to Torrox or other beaches nearby there are just as many Germans congregating speaking German and eating German food etc. Certainly you will find more German bars and restaurants than English. Reality is live and let live.

Johncarzx

It is true that some Brits (a minority and usually young tourists) do give a bad and false impression. Benidorm, drunk, vomiting in the street, urinating contests from the hotel balcony.

Boseley

A sad article and I suspect the author had an axe to grind. Did she forget to mention how much the economy benefits from the influx of these non integrating persons from the United Kingdom. Perhaps there is just no need for them to learn the Spanish language or integrate with Spanish people because no Spanish live where they live.

Here, about 1500 Km from the Costa del whatever, English is not used, its not needed, my neighbours, are immigrants from Venezuela, the big fellow down the road he is from Cuba, the boys who chat tp me most days and are learning English they are from Mauritania, the Chinese family I converse with in our common language Spanish, my Doctor he is from Argentina.

There are a lot of empty houses on our street and in the town, the locals do visit now and again, where have they gone? you may ask, Well they have gone to other far away places, where the British congregate, to take the sun, drink beer and eat fish and chips, that is where the better paid work is.

So Mrs. Writer, you come here, you might learn something new about those whom you are trying, and failing, to belittle.

Fred James

I spend a lot of time with friends who live in Nerja and surroundings. They are all pensioners and have lived here for at least 15 years. Most of them have a very basic understanding of Spanish (some do not) but could not hold a proper conversation. It is not a problem at all. Hospitals have translators. Many of the doctors and hospital consultants speak adequate English. Bars and restaurants usually have some English, but most of the Expats can speak perfect restaurant Spanish and understand the menu. My spoken conversational Spanish is poor but I understand it well enough, my wife who is pretty good often gets me to translate certain things, unless it is a local with a broad Andaluz accent then we both have problems.

For any legal matters, there are plenty of English gestors or English speaking Spanish gestors. Most Spanish web pages translate 99% correct with Google translate.

We live outside town in the Campo and have only a couple of neighbours who spend most of their time at their homes in the town so opportunities to chat are rare.

I think we are fairly typical and it certainly hasn't affected our ability to enjoy life in Spain.

teuchterpete

Having worked in the service industry for a short while ( in the UK) I was surprised at how many times I had to speak to adult" British Asians" through their children. It was not hard to deduce that they were not new immigrants as quite a few were established shopkeepers. How many of these same British citizens are to be seen at a cricket match waving Indian, or Pakistani flags and cheering on the opposition. As for Spain, during the recent world cup, our local tv channel ( canal sur) ran an article during their prime time " Andalucia Directo" broadcast, under the head line "British hooligans" The interviewer, who was talking to a local bar owner on the costa del sol, was repeatedly insisting that British holidaymakers were running around causing havock, whilst a tape of tourists running around knocking over tables etc was looped in the background. The bar owner was repeatedly saying that they ( the British) were no different to any other tourists, including the Spanish. They are just a having a good night out and it was not the British who were causing trouble. Lastly I am sure I am not the only person who watched the world cup final on terrestrial TV with Spanish commentary. When there was a pitch invasion, the commentator immediately referred to the ingressors as " Inglesses" without any knowledge at all. ( it turns out they were Russians!) I try to integrate, but just like any other minority, some incommers often do not do so, and dont do .themselves any favours by isolating themselves in their own little enclaves Sadly incommers in any country are usually the ones who are blamed for anything and everything,
Hence Brexit
Pete

ononno

It is true that the British fail or refuse to integrate wherever they go in the world.
But they are not the only ones. My wife is Italian, and spent some time in the UK in the late 50's, as did many of her countryfolk. They worked in the mills and mines of Northern England and North Wales, and steadfastly refused to embrace anything British. They had Italian food, Italian film evenings in local cinemas, Italian priests, and always in the background a big brother to chaperone the girls if and when they went out and about. They seldom made friends with anyone not Italian.
Then she met me.
'lluego,
'o nonno

Johncarzx

Part of the reason some British do not integrate is their belief that they are superior and that the UK as a country is superior to all others. There is only one way to do anything, and that is the UK way. All other countries are backward and wrong in their culture and ways.

Many other ethnic minorities prefer to live within their own comfort zone out of fear. They feel safer amongst themselves.

JB_free

Conversely my father and uncle moved from Italy in the 60's and have completely integrated into British life. Both speak perfect English, both married English women, worked all their lives, paid taxes and made British friends. They are from Northern Italy and there does seems to be quite a cultural difference compared to Southern Italians so maybe that has had an impact. Neither wanted to change England when they arrived, they embraced all it had to offer both good and bad. Of course there were / are times they wish certain things were done how they were done in Italy but they embrace their adopted country and have no intention of returning to Italy, other than for holidays. Would things have been different if when they arrived in England they had found a large Italian expat community based there? I don't think so but who knows. Moving to a new country, especially on your own, can be a daunting prospect, so having the security and comfort of an expat community and being part of that is understandable. I think however if you choose to solely spend your time in such a group it does leave you open to criticism especially from locals. There is certainly nothing wrong with being part of an expat community but integrating to a certain degree is also, in my opinion, a necessity even if it is nothing more than learning the language.

1sexsmith

If people prefer to live in Spain where they don't need to adapt to Spanish customs etc and it doesn't affect other people then that is fine. What I personally don't like is the attitude that the can have it both ways. If you don't speak Spanish and know little of culture, politics , customs it comes across as arrogant talking to people to in English about how things are or what needs to be done. It amazes me how some bodies, for example CAB Or English speaking radio programmes often tell people to ask about about things in their central salud or ayuntamiento presumably in English. It is as if the Spanish are legally obliged to speak English. If you don't speak Spanish you should always have an interpreter when you wish to do things. Or learn Spanish