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British Expats (https://britishexpats.com/forum/)
-   Spain (https://britishexpats.com/forum/spain-75/)
-   -   Foreign cultures (https://britishexpats.com/forum/spain-75/foreign-cultures-697423/)

anonimouse Dec 18th 2010 6:36 am
Foreign cultures
 
I think most of us say that we like to see the culture of other countries, I do.

I wonder how Britains culture comes across to foreign holiday makers now.

I think Britain has lost it's identity, after the red london bus what have we got?

jdr Dec 18th 2010 6:46 am
Re: Foreign cultures
 
Originally Posted by anonimouse (Post 9048134)
I think most of us say that we like to see the culture of other countries, I do.

I wonder how Britains culture comes across to foreign holiday makers now.

I think Britain has lost it's identity, after the red london bus what have we got?
What`s this got to do with Spain :confused:

anonimouse Dec 18th 2010 6:51 am
Re: Foreign cultures
 
Originally Posted by jdr (Post 9048147)
What`s this got to do with Spain :confused:
They are both cultures but Spain has managed to maintain its

jdr Dec 18th 2010 7:01 am
Re: Foreign cultures
 
Originally Posted by anonimouse (Post 9048151)
They are both cultures but Spain has managed to maintain its
All I read was about Britain and a question about the red bus. ;);)

anonimouse Dec 18th 2010 7:04 am
Re: Foreign cultures
 
Originally Posted by jdr (Post 9048160)
All I read was about Britain and a question about the red bus. ;);)
Sorry mate, I can't edit the title now, I actually did change it from Spanish culture to foreign, didn't think it would cause confusion.:o

Spanish culture lives on yet ours is gone why have we let it go?

missile Dec 18th 2010 8:04 am
Re: Foreign cultures
 
I don't agree. You seem to have a very biased view.

You are entitled to your opinion but for someone
I've not been in the Uk for years (thank god) but I see on television
I don't understand why you feel the need to comment?

jojojojojo Dec 18th 2010 8:07 am
Re: Foreign cultures
 
Originally Posted by anonimouse (Post 9048162)
Sorry mate, I can't edit the title now, I actually did change it from Spanish culture to foreign, didn't think it would cause confusion.:o

Spanish culture lives on yet ours is gone why have we let it go?
Spain is losing its culture just as the UK is. Both countries are becoming european countries, slowly but surely. Maybe you dont notice the UK culture cos you're used to it, but there are still pockets of it, just as there is in Spain


Jo xxx

anonimouse Dec 18th 2010 8:15 am
Re: Foreign cultures
 
Originally Posted by missile (Post 9048214)
I don't agree. You seem to have a very biased view.

You are entitled to your opinion but for someone I don't understand why you feel the need to comment?
Exactly and entitled to ask if others think the same or differently, it's one of the reasons I don't want to go back, it's not like home any more, however on the other hand Spain always seem to have it's own traditions going strong and other countries do too.

I was reading on here that Bonfire nights gone out of the window now. Small part but add them all together.

So, whats the problem with a general chat about our culture, can you fill me in?

If you're not interested don't bother replying I'm sure there's plenty others that have an opinion, whatever it is.

cricketman Dec 18th 2010 8:30 am
Re: Foreign cultures
 
Originally Posted by anonimouse (Post 9048162)

Spanish culture lives on yet ours is gone why have we let it go?
A lot of Spaniards argue that there is no such thing as Spanish culture, just like there is no such thing as Spanish food or Spanish music. The culture in Spain is much more local/regional than that.

There was a study recently saying that there was only one food dish that united the whole country. i.e. one thing that people ate in every household...

Tortilla de patata.

And btw, of course British culture hasnt disappeared, you just dont notice it because you are so much part of it. That's like my mum saying she hasnt got an accent :rofl:

missile Dec 18th 2010 9:08 am
Re: Foreign cultures
 
Originally Posted by anonimouse (Post 9048226)
Exactly and entitled to ask if others think the same or differently, it's one of the reasons I don't want to go back, it's not like home any more, however on the other hand Spain always seem to have it's own traditions going strong and other countries do too.

I was reading on here that Bonfire nights gone out of the window now. Small part but add them all together.

So, whats the problem with a general chat about our culture, can you fill me in?

If you're not interested don't bother replying I'm sure there's plenty others that have an opinion, whatever it is.
Don't know what newspapers you read, but bonfire night is still celebrated. In most towns kids still go around trick or treating in halloween costume.

I have no problem with you expressing an opinion. It seems strange when you have not been in the UK for many years and don't want to return why you feel the need to knock it?:thumbdown: Of course that is just MY opinion :rofl:

anonimouse Dec 18th 2010 10:06 am
Re: Foreign cultures
 
Originally Posted by missile (Post 9048268)
Don't know what newspapers you read, but bonfire night is still celebrated. In most towns kids still go around trick or treating in halloween costume.

I have no problem with you expressing an opinion. It seems strange when you have not been in the UK for many years and don't want to return why you feel the need to knock it?:thumbdown: Of course that is just MY opinion :rofl:
I don't read news papers, I can't get them. I read about bonfire night not being what it used to be lower down on this forum. Maybe that's a poor example.

Fact is lots of things I grew up with as a lad have sadly now gone or are in decline.

It's not seen as important to, for instance keep our piers in good repair, always down to money before our culture.

I really enjoy seeing other countries culture and they seem to take pride in it, I wondered what foreign holiday makers might think of our culture and what's left of it apart from the red London bus, oh and Buckingham palace.

Perhaps Culture is the wrong word? I'm sure others will know what I mean.

Maybe others, or you, can tell me there's loads of investment going on now to keep the culture going, I am interested, as all I see is a small glimps and it may look worse to me than it actually is.

Do you have an opinion on this rather than on me?

missile Dec 18th 2010 10:30 am
Re: Foreign cultures
 
Originally Posted by anonimouse (Post 9048323)
Do you have an opinion on this rather than on me?
I certainly do have an opinion. It may be sad when some traditions are not maintained but I would suggest those are ones that are no longer relevant to most people's lives and other newer traditions come along to take their place ..... such is progress?

FYI some very old traditions have been re-introduced and others are very much alive in many places across the UK

Burning the clocks in Brighton
Hogmany Fireballs in Stonehaven >http://www.stonehavenfireballs.co.uk.../fireballs.jpg
the Comrie Flambeaux and the Up Helly Aa of the Shetland Islands, to name but a few.

anonimouse Dec 18th 2010 10:35 am
Re: Foreign cultures
 
Now then, that's more like it. :)

Thanks

missile Dec 18th 2010 10:35 am
Re: Foreign cultures
 
I had the honour to escort some of my spanish friends on a visit to the UK and they were very interested in our scenery, traditions and culture:thumbup:, but they were more interested in patying:rofl:.

anonimouse Dec 18th 2010 10:43 am
Re: Foreign cultures
 
Originally Posted by missile (Post 9048372)
I had the honour to escort some of my spanish friends on a visit to the UK and they were very interested in our scenery, traditions and culture:thumbup:, but they were more interested in patying:rofl:.
And that is one thing that the UK is good at:thumbup:

jimenato Dec 18th 2010 11:15 am
Re: Foreign cultures
 
How about the 'obby 'oss in Minehead and Padstow and the furry dance in Helston. The Somerset night carnivals in November are unequalled anywhere in the world as far as I am aware. I've never seen a Flower Show anywhere else than England nor a Victorian Street fair.

Relampago Dec 18th 2010 2:37 pm
Re: Foreign cultures
 
Originally Posted by cricketman (Post 9048243)
A lot of Spaniards argue that there is no such thing as Spanish culture, just like there is no such thing as Spanish food or Spanish music. The culture in Spain is much more local/regional than that.

There was a study recently saying that there was only one food dish that united the whole country. i.e. one thing that people ate in every household...

Tortilla de patata.

And btw, of course British culture hasnt disappeared, you just dont notice it because you are so much part of it. That's like my mum saying she hasnt got an accent :rofl:
It is not certain. To exception of the Catalan and Basque nationalism, we all feel Spanish. Even inside the Catalan nationalisms and Basque is many spanish feeling. The regionalisms don't impede that we are of the same country, and the test you have it in the soccer World Cup. Outside of Spain, if you eat something from Spain, somebody from Murcia, Madrid, Toledo or Asturias will tell you that you are eating Spanish food, but maybe inside of Spain, say that what you are eating is of a certain region of Spain

HBG Dec 18th 2010 6:41 pm
Re: Foreign cultures
 
The things I miss about the UK are many, but I always enjoy a walk around the centre of London, and judging by the number of foreign tourists I see, they must feel the same way. I could go on about the Cairngorms and a thousand other places but it would take too long.

The Plaza Mayor in Madrid takes some beating too and even Gibraltar amazes me, I always think – what the hell are the Brits doing there?

Years ago I visited the Berlin Wall, now there was something to make you think – how could that have happened?

rugbymatt Dec 18th 2010 6:57 pm
Re: Foreign cultures
 
How on earth is the UK losing its identity?

whitelinen Dec 18th 2010 8:15 pm
Re: Foreign cultures
 
Originally Posted by anonimouse (Post 9048323)
I don't read news papers, I can't get them. I read about bonfire night not being what it used to be lower down on this forum. Maybe that's a poor example.
But you do have internet and all newspapers are available online and most are free as are millions of pages of whats on in the UK.

What on earth has this thread got to do with Spain?

jojojojojo Dec 18th 2010 8:20 pm
Re: Foreign cultures
 
There is plenty of "britishness" still in Britain, not just bonfire night, but the scenery, the villages and most small towns are all as they always were, pubs, post offices, policemen, double decker buses, even the much maligned council estates are typically british. Yes there are some foreign influences creeping in, trick or treat is essentially american as are the OTT christmas lights on houses, but thats happening everywhere and will continue to do so since world travel and communication is getting easier and more accessable. Its happening in Spain too and we have to accept it as progress!

Jo xxx

Lynn R Dec 19th 2010 12:20 am
Re: Foreign cultures
 
I actually saw my old house in England on TV the other night, in a BBC3 programme called 'Still Folk Dancing After All These Years' - the little town where I lived has one of those strange morris dancing type groups who dance all around the town every Easter Saturday and our street is on their route - that's one tradition that's still going strong, long may it continue.

I like to see old customs kept up in whatever country I am living in or visiting, it's one of the things that makes travelling so interesting.

I hate the globalisation trend that is making every town centre almost indistinguishable from the next, with only the same chain stores everywhere you go.

angiescarr Dec 19th 2010 1:02 am
Re: Foreign cultures
 
Originally Posted by anonimouse (Post 9048226)
Exactly and entitled to ask if others think the same or differently, it's one of the reasons I don't want to go back, it's not like home any more, however on the other hand Spain always seem to have it's own traditions going strong and other countries do too.

I was reading on here that Bonfire nights gone out of the window now. Small part but add them all together.

So, whats the problem with a general chat about our culture, can you fill me in?

If you're not interested don't bother replying I'm sure there's plenty others that have an opinion, whatever it is.
Yeah,:thumbup: I do think some people are just too quick to 'take umbridge' on this forum. It's an Expat Forum. Anything that interests Expats in or interested in Spain is fair game for discussion. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and it's not offensive to ask if British culture is still alive and Kicking or, perhaps whether people prefer the Spanish way of adhering more firmly to their traditions. I notice Anonimouse likes to start threads like this, which may or may not interest other people. As he/ she says. If you aren't interested... Just ignore the thread. It really is that easy!

casa del sol Dec 19th 2010 1:11 am
Re: Foreign cultures
 
Originally Posted by jojojojojo (Post 9048221)
Spain is losing its culture just as the UK is. Both countries are becoming european countries, slowly but surely. Maybe you dont notice the UK culture cos you're used to it, but there are still pockets of it, just as there is in Spain


Jo xxx
..they call it globalisation, slowly the big corporate companies move in to exploit the communities...the siesta will be lost then Sunday trading will be the norm...then savings will go out of fashion and credit cards and debt will become the in thing to buy the luxuries of life, cheap imports from Asia...then wives will also have to work to make family ends meet by working for the big corporate companies.

They call that progress.

jojojojojo Dec 19th 2010 1:58 am
Re: Foreign cultures
 
Originally Posted by casa del sol (Post 9049325)
..they call it globalisation, slowly the big corporate companies move in to exploit the communities...the siesta will be lost then Sunday trading will be the norm...then savings will go out of fashion and credit cards and debt will become the in thing to buy the luxuries of life, cheap imports from Asia...then wives will also have to work to make family ends meet by working for the big corporate companies.

They call that progress.
I know what you mean, But its progress as in moving forward in time. Ultimately, it means families get the luxuries and lifestyles they want. Afterall how many young spanish have aspirations to ride donkeys through lemongroves??? Hence alot of pretty little villages, both in the UK and Spain are losing their youth to the big towns and cities to find work!

Jo xxx

missile Dec 19th 2010 3:01 am
Re: Foreign cultures
 
Originally Posted by angiescarr (Post 9049308)
Yeah,:thumbup: I do think some people are just too quick to 'take umbridge' on this forum. It's an Expat Forum. Anything that interests Expats in or interested in Spain is fair game for discussion. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and it's not offensive to ask if British culture is still alive and Kicking or, perhaps whether people prefer the Spanish way of adhering more firmly to their traditions. I notice Anonimouse likes to start threads like this, which may or may not interest other people. As he/ she says. If you aren't interested... Just ignore the thread. It really is that easy!
I did say he was entitled to his opinion :rolleyes:
I did NOT say his post was offensive.
Anionimouse and I are entitled to have a mature dicsussion. :wub:

jdr Dec 19th 2010 4:31 am
Re: Foreign cultures
 
Originally Posted by angiescarr (Post 9049308)
Yeah,:thumbup: I do think some people are just too quick to 'take umbridge' on this forum. It's an Expat Forum. Anything that interests Expats in or interested in Spain is fair game for discussion. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and it's not offensive to ask if British culture is still alive and Kicking or, perhaps whether people prefer the Spanish way of adhering more firmly to their traditions. I notice Anonimouse likes to start threads like this, which may or may not interest other people. As he/ she says. If you aren't interested... Just ignore the thread. It really is that easy!
This site is is an Expat site, have a look here but is divided into countries so that people, say on the Spanish forum don`t have to read crap from Oz, USA, or UK.
Anything off Spain topic should go in Siesta time or the Lounge or even better TIO.

casa del sol Dec 19th 2010 4:40 am
Re: Foreign cultures
 
Originally Posted by jojojojojo (Post 9049371)
I know what you mean, But its progress as in moving forward in time. Ultimately, it means families get the luxuries and lifestyles they want. Afterall how many young spanish have aspirations to ride donkeys through lemongroves??? Hence alot of pretty little villages, both in the UK and Spain are losing their youth to the big towns and cities to find work!

Jo xxx
You may well be right, but in my opinion they should be careful what they wish for.....land, family life, fresh own grown food and living to work rather than working to live without the so called luxuries that do not on the face of it bring happiness, has got to be better than what many of us think is wealth, when in fact it is not.

jojojojojo Dec 19th 2010 5:00 am
Re: Foreign cultures
 
Originally Posted by casa del sol (Post 9049554)
You may well be right, but in my opinion they should be careful what they wish for.....land, family life, fresh own grown food and living to work rather than working to live without the so called luxuries that do not on the face of it bring happiness, has got to be better than what many of us think is wealth, when in fact it is not.

Yeah, but the world isnt like that anymore. The latest fashion, music, fast cars...... They do work to live, but they want to "live" a different kind of life and want to work in a trendy profession! Very few youngsters want to live in a village eating home grown produce, in fact there are few financially supporting jobs in the "old world" to be had anymore!

They're no different to most other european kids or people. I have to say that if living a village life meant that I had to do my washing in a stream or by hand instead of a washing machine, I wouldnt want it in any country! Progress may not sound nice and cosy, but overall it has improved lifestyles, living standards, poverty and hard graft for no rewards

Jo xxx

casa del sol Dec 19th 2010 5:32 am
Re: Foreign cultures
 
Originally Posted by jojojojojo (Post 9049579)
Yeah, but the world isnt like that anymore. The latest fashion, music, fast cars...... They do work to live, but they want to "live" a different kind of life and want to work in a trendy profession! Very few youngsters want to live in a village eating home grown produce, in fact there are few financially supporting jobs in the "old world" to be had anymore!

They're no different to most other european kids or people. I have to say that if living a village life meant that I had to do my washing in a stream or by hand instead of a washing machine, I wouldnt want it in any country! Progress may not sound nice and cosy, but overall it has improved lifestyles, living standards, poverty and hard graft for no rewards

Jo xxx
Nothing wrong with labour saving devices, but all these things should be giving people more free quality time, instead they are more interested in earning and borrowing more and getting caught up in the rat race. Once you lose the old style/way of living it is hard to get it back again. Many may say that is a good thing but I have my doubts.

bil Dec 19th 2010 7:33 am
Re: Foreign cultures
 
Originally Posted by angiescarr (Post 9049308)
Yeah,:thumbup: I do think some people are just too quick to 'take umbridge' on this forum. It's an Expat Forum. Anything that interests Expats in or interested in Spain is fair game for discussion. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and it's not offensive to ask if British culture is still alive and Kicking or, perhaps whether people prefer the Spanish way of adhering more firmly to their traditions. I notice Anonimouse likes to start threads like this, which may or may not interest other people. As he/ she says. If you aren't interested... Just ignore the thread. It really is that easy!
Isn't Umbrage where the Archers was set?

Sally Redux Dec 19th 2010 7:46 am
Re: Foreign cultures
 
Originally Posted by bil (Post 9049774)
Isn't Umbrage where the Archers was set?
Monty Python's Election Night Special: Arthur Negus has held Bristols. That's not a result, that's a bit of gossip....Mary Whitehouse has just taken umbrage. Could it be a bit of trouble there.

anonimouse Dec 19th 2010 8:32 am
Re: Foreign cultures
 
Originally Posted by jdr (Post 9049543)
This site is is an Expat site, have a look here but is divided into countries so that people, say on the Spanish forum don`t have to read crap from Oz, USA, or UK.
Anything off Spain topic should go in Siesta time or the Lounge or even better TIO.
But Spain is a foreign culture to us Brits and if I was aiming at Australians I may have just had the sense to put it under Australia. It could be just about any culture, anywhere in the world however.....
I put it under Spain so that anyone but an idiot (read into that what you will) might think it was aimed at the Ex pats in Spain.

It wouldn't allow me to change the title as I have already explained to you once.

Me thinks you and a couple of others on here just like taking a pop and trying to be clever, carry on by all means, it's quite entertaining and hurts me not, it simply shows your selves up for what you are:thumbup:

Sorry forgot this one too..

Originally Posted by jdr (Post 9048160)
All I read was about Britain and a question about the red bus. ;);)
You mean you read only half a post then take a pop?

Don't worry I have found already in my short time posting here, that you're not alone in reading only what you want to and taking pops.

rugbymatt Dec 19th 2010 9:38 am
Re: Foreign cultures
 
Originally Posted by anonimouse (Post 9049830)
Don't worry I have found already in my short time posting here, that you're not alone in reading only what you want to and taking pops.
If you start threads with such sweeping statements as ".. Britain has lost its identity" then I'm afraid you are gonna get opinions you don't really like... sorry.

anonimouse Dec 19th 2010 9:46 am
Re: Foreign cultures
 
Originally Posted by rugbymatt (Post 9049913)
If you start threads with such sweeping statements as ".. Britain has lost its identity" then I'm afraid you are gonna get opinions you don't really like... sorry.
Gosh another one who invents things.....

Who said I don't like the opinions here?:unsure: Don't be sorry, Show me an example please.

Maybe you mean my opinion of the opinion made about me rather than my post? That I wasn't keen on no, and it was out of order.

I'm interested to see everyone's opinion but not so keen on them taking petty pops just to try and be clever though.

In fact I actually said in my OP.. " I THINK".. Britain has lost its identity" , there is a huge difference to your half statement above.

JLFS Dec 19th 2010 4:38 pm
Re: Foreign cultures
 
Originally Posted by casa del sol (Post 9049554)
You may well be right, but in my opinion they should be careful what they wish for.....land, family life, fresh own grown food and living to work rather than working to live without the so called luxuries that do not on the face of it bring happiness, has got to be better than what many of us think is wealth, when in fact it is not.
Wow, what a condescending post to the Spanish population. I just love it when we are treated as slightly simple. The way of life you describe happened all over europe a few years ago, even in the villages in the UK, it wasnt enough for them, why do you think that is should be enough for us?

Obviously there should be no budding Richard Bransons and such in Spain, they should all be contented to drink milk from the family cow and have no further aspirations than to eat a fresh duck egg every day.

What a nice slap in the face for all the Spanish students who are working their way through UNI and such. It seems you are a follower of chairman Maos thinking, or you are now, now that you have made enough money to be able to relocate and live in a foreign country,

And while we are it it, what luxuries are you talking about? Could it be a car, hot running water, washing machine, mobile?
Are these the things you are SERIOUSLY advocating that the Spanish youth give up, before they all go to hell in a hand cart? GET REAL.



It really gets my goat when "incomers" think they know whats best for the local population. They dont want progress, they would rather things remained quaint and "typically Spanish", usually for one of 2 reasons. Fisrt is they can be reminded everyday that they escaped the ratrace, and secondly so that they can brag to the folks back home about the "cute" little customs of the locals.

Originally Posted by jojojojojo (Post 9049579)
Yeah, but the world isnt like that anymore. The latest fashion, music, fast cars...... They do work to live, but they want to "live" a different kind of life and want to work in a trendy profession! Very few youngsters want to live in a village eating home grown produce, in fact there are few financially supporting jobs in the "old world" to be had anymore!

They're no different to most other european kids or people. I have to say that if living a village life meant that I had to do my washing in a stream or by hand instead of a washing machine, I wouldnt want it in any country! Progress may not sound nice and cosy, but overall it has improved lifestyles, living standards, poverty and hard graft for no rewards

Jo xxx
Hi Jo, thank you for treating us like rational people and not a species apart or whatever.:thumbsup::thumbsup:

jojojojojo Dec 19th 2010 6:55 pm
Re: Foreign cultures
 
Originally Posted by JLFS (Post 9050375)
Wow, what a condescending post to the Spanish population. I just love it when we are treated as slightly simple. The way of life you describe happened all over europe a few years ago, even in the villages in the UK, it wasnt enough for them, why do you think that is should be enough for us?

Obviously there should be no budding Richard Bransons and such in Spain, they should all be contented to drink milk from the family cow and have no further aspirations than to eat a fresh duck egg every day.

What a nice slap in the face for all the Spanish students who are working their way through UNI and such. It seems you are a follower of chairman Maos thinking, or you are now, now that you have made enough money to be able to relocate and live in a foreign country,

And while we are it it, what luxuries are you talking about? Could it be a car, hot running water, washing machine, mobile?
Are these the things you are SERIOUSLY advocating that the Spanish youth give up, before they all go to hell in a hand cart? GET REAL.



It really gets my goat when "incomers" think they know whats best for the local population. They dont want progress, they would rather things remained quaint and "typically Spanish", usually for one of 2 reasons. Fisrt is they can be reminded everyday that they escaped the ratrace, and secondly so that they can brag to the folks back home about the "cute" little customs of the locals.



Hi Jo, thank you for treating us like rational people and not a species apart or whatever.:thumbsup::thumbsup:
The Spanish are as entitled as any other nation to move with the times and do. It may not be how expats want to live, but its not their decision. Its strange that on one hand the world is trying to bring all those third world countries into the modern world and give them the luxuries that the rest of the world has (clean running water, hospitals, electricity....) but when it comes to Spain, they want time to stop and for them to live in an uneconomic and backward way (No, I'm not saying that Spain is a third world country BTW!!), to keep it as a living museum! It cant happen, Spain is part of Europe and as such will move with the times and why shouldnt it????? It may not be everyones view and that may not be why people come to live in Spain, but thats how it is!

It is often said that expats shouldnt come to Spain and try to change it, but nor should they come to Spain and try to keep it the same

Jo xxx

angiescarr Dec 19th 2010 8:18 pm
Re: Foreign cultures
 
Originally Posted by JLFS (Post 9050375)
It really gets my goat when "incomers" think they know whats best for the local population.
I've probably done this quote wrong.Apologies if so. Quote forms part of a longer post by JLFS

JLFS You do seem to like this word "incomers" and use it regularly.
Is it a put down? How is it any different from the word immigrants? Do you consider yourself an incomer?

missile Dec 19th 2010 8:25 pm
Re: Foreign cultures
 
For your info:
incomer a person who comes to live in a place in which he was not born
immigrant a person who migrates to another country, usually for permanent residence.

angiescarr Dec 19th 2010 8:36 pm
Re: Foreign cultures
 
Originally Posted by missile (Post 9050659)
For your info:
incomer a person who comes to live in a place in which he was not born
immigrant a person who migrates to another country, usually for permanent residence.
I still think they are two words with pretty much the same meaning as used by JLFS. Unless the first one is being applied where people are moving specifically within the country, Sorry if I'm being dense, but can you explain the niceties of this for me.


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