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-   -   FEELING THE PINCH IS NO EXCUSE TO COMMIT BENEFIT FRAUD - CALL THE HOTLINE AND HELP (https://britishexpats.com/forum/spain-75/feeling-pinch-no-excuse-commit-benefit-fraud-call-hotline-help-766916/)

HBG Aug 1st 2012 7:28 pm

Re: FEELING THE PINCH IS NO EXCUSE TO COMMIT BENEFIT FRAUD - CALL THE HOTLINE AND H
 
I get the impression that people confuse the act of informing on their family and neighbours with the noble idea of public spiritedness.

The biggest bestseller of all times, the bible, explains it. A low-life grass informed on a spiritual leader who was nailed to the cross.

That's entirely different to the man (or woman) who intervenes when a bully or criminal misbehaves in front of them. Judas Iscariot would undoubtedly carry on reading his newspaper, while some brave person, disregarding their own safety, would step in to make a difference.

Domino Aug 1st 2012 8:03 pm

Re: FEELING THE PINCH IS NO EXCUSE TO COMMIT BENEFIT FRAUD - CALL THE HOTLINE AND H
 
I reported a tenant committing Benefit Fraud - claiming she was living alone with 4 kids whilst her boyfriend and father of youngest kid was living with her and working as a security guard at a well known mail order company.

Well I tried to report her - I left a message on the Hotline with all my contact details but never got a response back from them. Subsequently she left my property owing months of rent, for which she had been paid Housing Benefit which I reported - again no one wanted to know.

I found out later she had done exactly the same at the previous house and also at the one she moved to after mine.
Her sister also was working the same scam on benefits.

amideislas Aug 1st 2012 8:10 pm

Re: FEELING THE PINCH IS NO EXCUSE TO COMMIT BENEFIT FRAUD - CALL THE HOTLINE AND H
 

Originally Posted by Domino (Post 10206320)
I reported a tenant committing Benefit Fraud - claiming she was living alone with 4 kids whilst her boyfriend and father of youngest kid was living with her and working as a security guard at a well known mail order company.

Well I tried to report her - I left a message on the Hotline with all my contact details but never got a response back from them. Subsequently she left my property owing months of rent, for which she had been paid Housing Benefit which I reported - again no one wanted to know.

I found out later she had done exactly the same at the previous house and also at the one she moved to after mine.
Her sister also was working the same scam on benefits.

People are like cats. If you give it to them, they will take it. Even if you tell them not to.

jackytoo Aug 1st 2012 10:29 pm

Re: FEELING THE PINCH IS NO EXCUSE TO COMMIT BENEFIT FRAUD - CALL THE HOTLINE AND H
 
I think most whistleblowers do it for revenge. Seen a lot of cases in the news where they have been reported by their partners when the marriage/relationship has broken down. Has to be someone close to them or how would one know:confused: Someone posted their neighbour was getting pension credit and not entitled to it. Unless they have admitted it (unlikely) then how does anyone know another persons private finance status!

Rotor Aug 1st 2012 11:00 pm

Re: FEELING THE PINCH IS NO EXCUSE TO COMMIT BENEFIT FRAUD - CALL THE HOTLINE AND H
 

Originally Posted by cricketman (Post 10205141)
If I remember correctly, the black market is estimated to make up 25% of the Spanish economy and about 20% of the UK economySo not that much difference. And I bet the 5% extra the Spanish government miss out on in terms of tax revenues they save because they pay much less out in ways of benefits

That's why noone cares, its not as if people are living it large by working on the black. Mainly just earning enough to feed their family

Having owned business`s in both countries from what I`ve seen I`d say its more like 40% Spain & 10% UK black.

amideislas Aug 1st 2012 11:08 pm

Re: FEELING THE PINCH IS NO EXCUSE TO COMMIT BENEFIT FRAUD - CALL THE HOTLINE AND H
 

Originally Posted by Rotor (Post 10206625)
Having owned business`s in both countries from what I`ve seen I`d say its more like 40% Spain & 10% UK black.

I don't know and can't be bothered to look it up, but it's just a typical character trait of his to exaggerate everything. Don't take it too seriously.

rspltd Aug 1st 2012 11:55 pm

Re: FEELING THE PINCH IS NO EXCUSE TO COMMIT BENEFIT FRAUD - CALL THE HOTLINE AND H
 
According to Professor David Howden, Associate Professor of Economics at St. Louis University, in Madrid the countries with the largest underground economies in Europe are all in the south. Portugal, Italy, Greece and Spain, at 20%, 22%, 25% and 20% of their GDP performed in the underground lead the pack. Although their taxes might not be what we could consider low, especially when compared with the Anglo or Asian worlds, they are low by European standards. At the other end of the spectrum we have countries like Finland and France, with only 14% and 11% of their total economic activity taking place hidden in the underground shadows. Finland and France both have among the highest tax obligations in Europe.

HBG Aug 2nd 2012 12:04 am

Re: FEELING THE PINCH IS NO EXCUSE TO COMMIT BENEFIT FRAUD - CALL THE HOTLINE AND H
 

Originally Posted by jackytoo (Post 10206592)
I think most whistleblowers do it for revenge. Seen a lot of cases in the news where they have been reported by their partners when the marriage/relationship has broken down. Has to be someone close to them or how would one know:confused: Someone posted their neighbour was getting pension credit and not entitled to it. Unless they have admitted it (unlikely) then how does anyone know another persons private finance status!

Jealousy and revenge are horrible emotions which most of us are able to keep under control; and neither of which would make me pick up the phone to inform on someone as we are invited to do in the original post.

And whistleblowers? I don't know about those, but I don't possess a whistle.

Pocaloca Aug 2nd 2012 3:24 am

Re: FEELING THE PINCH IS NO EXCUSE TO COMMIT BENEFIT FRAUD - CALL THE HOTLINE AND H
 

Originally Posted by Rotor (Post 10206625)
Having owned business`s in both countries from what I`ve seen I`d say its more like 40% Spain & 10% UK black.

Is that because in the UK they are better at hiding it? :sneaky:

I heard someone say on the radio the other day that UK had the 7th largest black economy in the world. But given that its underground by definition I can't see how they can possibly know?

Dick Dasterdly Aug 2nd 2012 5:09 am

Re: FEELING THE PINCH IS NO EXCUSE TO COMMIT BENEFIT FRAUD - CALL THE HOTLINE AND H
 

Originally Posted by Pocaloca (Post 10206955)
Is that because in the UK they are better at hiding it? :sneaky:

I heard someone say on the radio the other day that UK had the 7th largest black economy in the world. But given that its underground by definition I can't see how they can possibly know?

No way to know, as there's so many variations on how the black market can operate.

Apart from the obvious ones there are guys with small and legit businesses who fill in their tax returns and may or may not show a profit, but still take a good percentage of their income in cash and stuff it straight under the mattress.

There are other guys with regular work and regular tax paid wages that take on loads of undeclared cash paid jobs outside normal working hours or at weekends often using their employers equipment.

In both cases there could well be a high tax liability due to income already declared taking them into a higher level.

I would say very its very difficult to fully investigate such common practices, if at all, and the amount of tax evasion in both cases I think would be quite substantial.
Basically it's only the greediest or dumbest of such ppl. who will ever get caught out.

ionie Aug 2nd 2012 9:09 am

Re: FEELING THE PINCH IS NO EXCUSE TO COMMIT BENEFIT FRAUD - CALL THE HOTLINE AND H
 
If I report someone for benefit fraud then wouldn't I be doing the work that the benefit fraud investigators are supposed to be doing? That would make me an illegal worker and I'd then have to report myself.
It's not our job to report someone because they've upset us in some way. I doubt that anyone would report their favourite child or current lover. Until they were dumped...


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