jimenato

Bingo!! The voice of reason. Whether or not something works can be measured.

So if someone is ill and they take something and they get better then that is evidence that what they took made them better? Please tell me that's not what you think...

"works for me" oh dear - it either works or it doesn't.

Has anybody said "that only scientifically created remedies work"?

Not me for sure. I would however say that you cannot be sure that a remedy works unless it has been scientifically tested - which is a whole different ballgame.

Rosemary

I am sure that you are absolutely right.

Graham

jimenato

I'm surprised at you bil - there is no doubt whatever about homeopathy. It's bollocks.

Dick Dasterdly

No doubt it was kill or cure, ...but if some poor sod looked to be dying anyway, then anything would be worth a try way back then.
If they found it worked on half a dozen similar cases then no doubt to them that would be as good as our scientifically proven.
If a couple of them popped their clogs,then they'd drop the deadly nightshade idea and try something else.
Simple enough, trial and error, thats all they had to evaluate something back then, but on that basis,I would imagine they did have some success at least, and a similar type of reasoning probably resulted in whatever old wives remedies proved successful.

angiescarr

Ha ha. Yes. I see what you mean! My mother in law likes prescriptions. If they gave her homeopathic water instead of the noxious drugs they do give her...she might feel better!

angiescarr

There is one problem with "scientific testing", and that is that if you trace the funding trail back it's probably too closely linked with getting the desired answer.
'Cherchez la femme';-)

jimenato

This is indeed sometimes a problem.

bil

Now that's a damn good point.

bil

It may well be, but it is true to say that water is a most unusual substance with some quite odd properties, and there may be something to their claims that water has memory. I keep an open mind.

Given tho that the homeopathic effect if real, would be surely almost impossible to detect against the background of placebo 'noise', is it even worth the effort of trying?

angiescarr

Ah. Now we're getting into an interesting area I call 'vibration'. Sounds like waffy airy fairy nonsense. Trying to explain it to my brother who is a sound designer I hit on putting it it like this:- Everything affects everything else. Imperceptibly usually. Most things have a kind of 'alignment' that can be 'out', like old fashioned computer screens used to need 'degaussing' from time to time. To put the microscopic magnetic particles back into alignment.
Many alternative remedies work on the principle of rebalancing and I think it's like 'degaussing' for the body. I'm not advocating any of these by mentioning them. But I do find it a really interesting area.
I know from experience (as a guitarist) that wood is very good at picking up these vibrations and that an old guitar which has been played well, or at least hard in my case has a better sound. It's been said you can even reproduce this maturation by playing music into a new guitar placed in front of a speaker!
And... on a possibly related note...weirdly, tea tastes better out of porcelain.
(This will be several steps too far for many on this forum who now will have me down as a total nutter!)

bil

Hmmm. Most times I hear people talking about vibration and energy levels I start looking for the angels and crystals to appear.

Water is wierd. By rights it should have a boiling point waaay below its current freezing point, and that's because it exists as polymers of water molecules, on average 25 molecules long.

These polymers exist in a number of odd shapes, the only one that I can remember is the one shaped like a book open at 45 degrees.

Down at the quantum level, really weird stuff starts to make itself felt.

The problem is as I say. If this effect is so small that it isn't easily demonstrated, why worry about it?

jimenato

It's worth looking at why homeopaths suddenly decided that water had memory.

It's because someone pointed out to them that if they diluted the original substance to a level of 12c there would be little chance of there being even one molecule of the substance in the solution. If they further dilute it to 30c (a common level of dilution in remedies) there would be no chance whatsoever.

That is why they suddenly made up the 'fact' that water has memory - no other reason.

angiescarr

Nope. Not interested in :- Angels, crystals, witchery, dragons, muesli knitting, crop circles and all that 'waffy' stuff.
I'm interested in the unexplained though. At least, that which isn't explained by obsessives as God ...or some other manifestation of their own fear.

Rosemary

When in UK we regularly visited a place selling crytals etc and the person selling them used to say that you should be attracted to the stone that you were in need of. I love anything purple so would often buy any stones that had purple in them no matter what other colour was with it, could never get through to the seller that it was purely the colour and nothing to do with the stone. That reminds me that I have not hung my crystals in this house yet, again it is for the way that they look not because of any beliefs.

Rosemary

Dick Dasterdly

I often hear the womenfolk jabbering on about essential oils and how they are so good for this that and the other, as well curing a thousand and one different ailments.
So consequently I get to thinking if they are so essential we could all be in mortal danger if we don't have immediate access to them, just as if we were deprived of other essential things like air and water.
Strangely enough to the best of my knowledge the human race seems to have survived ok without essentil oils for many thousands of years, so can someone kindly explain to me why they are described as being so essential and why the conmen who deal in them should not be prosecuted under the trades description act if they aren't really essential at all, but merely overpriced tiny bottles of smelly scent ?