Ex pats in Spain to lose winter fuel payment
Jun 26th 2013, 7:50 pm
#31
Straw Man.
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Jun 26th 2013, 8:08 pm
#32
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Granada Costa
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Re: Ex pats in Spain to lose winter fuel payment
The suggested plan is that you take the warmest UK location in the winter and any location with an average winter temperature below that would qualify.
For example, the Isle of Wight has an average temperature for the 4 winter months of 6.26 degrees.
Jaen, has an average of 10.35 degrees. Granada is 8.4 degrees. Madrid is 7.05 degrees.
There are very few locations in Spain with lower average temperatures than the warmest part of the UK and those that do fall below that level have very few expats.
Jun 26th 2013, 8:15 pm
#33
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Re: Ex pats in Spain to lose winter fuel payment
if you agree with the stopping of WFA to those UK residents (irrespective of their original nationality) without being prepared to expand the discussion into other contentious areas such as Child Benefit etc you must be in agreement with the remainder of the package.
Benefits are, and have been for many years, a contentious subject. They are there to protect those who are unable to protect themselves - although we know of many who will not apply for such as they feel they are not worthy of receiving such payments. Those even older remember the days of means testing and would never go near it.
Conversely those such as Alan Sugar, Cliff Richard, Phil Collins and Shirley Bassey (to name a few) who probably don't need it still get it as part of the all inclusive rules.
WFA is just one of those benefits that have been caught under an EU "catchall" requirement. It was never intended to pay in Spain, South of France, Cyprus or Italy etc. But the British Govt will have to be very careful of the wording of the eligibility or they will once again fall foul of the EU.
Considering I was living in an unheated house in temperatures below that of the highest for the UK for a good part of the winter I suppose I would be eligible. However, it was never part of my financial projections and as I have difficulty in returning it to the UK I use it to pay my additional heating bills. For which it was intended.
Benefits are, and have been for many years, a contentious subject. They are there to protect those who are unable to protect themselves - although we know of many who will not apply for such as they feel they are not worthy of receiving such payments. Those even older remember the days of means testing and would never go near it.
Conversely those such as Alan Sugar, Cliff Richard, Phil Collins and Shirley Bassey (to name a few) who probably don't need it still get it as part of the all inclusive rules.
WFA is just one of those benefits that have been caught under an EU "catchall" requirement. It was never intended to pay in Spain, South of France, Cyprus or Italy etc. But the British Govt will have to be very careful of the wording of the eligibility or they will once again fall foul of the EU.
Considering I was living in an unheated house in temperatures below that of the highest for the UK for a good part of the winter I suppose I would be eligible. However, it was never part of my financial projections and as I have difficulty in returning it to the UK I use it to pay my additional heating bills. For which it was intended.
Seeings as the UK met office and all that goes with it is one of the most sophisticated in the world apparently I am sure they will come up with some convoluted way of measuring things on behalf of the government, if it goes through - I think the last time they tried to stop this payment to expats the EU intervened, but maybe gorgeous George has found a workaround this time.
Jun 26th 2013, 8:22 pm
#34
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Re: Ex pats in Spain to lose winter fuel payment
I thought it was about saving money. Me, in times of austerity, I prefer to help the British first. Sorry if that offends anyone but this is how I feel. I think the WFA should be means-tested, not on temperature but on wealth.
‘Overseas aid is nothing to do with 'the benefits system' as it is known.
It's about helping people in their own Country to create work projects, employment and prosperity - in their country.’
In the past 40 years the world has given 400 billion to the African continent. They are today as poor as the day we started.
‘Overseas aid is nothing to do with 'the benefits system' as it is known.
It's about helping people in their own Country to create work projects, employment and prosperity - in their country.’
In the past 40 years the world has given 400 billion to the African continent. They are today as poor as the day we started.
who knows, doesn't mean whats left of the first world have to stop trying to help them within their own Country'sWho are all these poor expats that are going to starve without their 300 quid then ? No doubt with a bolt hole in the UK and a place in Spain.
Jun 26th 2013, 8:33 pm
#35
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Re: Ex pats in Spain to lose winter fuel payment
For all we know they may have been in an even worse mess without. who knows, doesn't mean whats left of the first world have to stop trying to help them within their own Country's
Who are all these poor expats that are going to starve without their 300 quid then ? No doubt with a bolt hole in the UK and a place in Spain.
who knows, doesn't mean whats left of the first world have to stop trying to help them within their own Country'sWho are all these poor expats that are going to starve without their 300 quid then ? No doubt with a bolt hole in the UK and a place in Spain.
Jun 26th 2013, 8:37 pm
#36
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Re: Ex pats in Spain to lose winter fuel payment
it wasn't me that took it off topic talking about foreign aid.
Jun 26th 2013, 8:38 pm
#37
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Re: Ex pats in Spain to lose winter fuel payment
Realistically, those expats who qualify for the WFA will have to drink one less gin and tonic per week when they lose it, and the treasury will save such a miniscule amount it won't even register.
But when all parties in the divided House cheer such a minor measure, it must be a vote catcher, just like the English test and sending single mothers out to work as soon as their child is three years old.
But when all parties in the divided House cheer such a minor measure, it must be a vote catcher, just like the English test and sending single mothers out to work as soon as their child is three years old.
Jun 26th 2013, 8:41 pm
#38
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Joined: Apr 2013
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Re: Ex pats in Spain to lose winter fuel payment
Realistically, those expats who qualify for the WFA will have to drink one less gin and tonic per week when they lose it, and the treasury will save such a miniscule amount it won't even register.
But when all parties in the divided House cheer such a minor measure, it must be a vote catcher, just like the English test and sending single mothers out to work as soon as their child is three years old.
But when all parties in the divided House cheer such a minor measure, it must be a vote catcher, just like the English test and sending single mothers out to work as soon as their child is three years old.
Jun 26th 2013, 9:11 pm
#39
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Re: Ex pats in Spain to lose winter fuel payment
Okay, I’ll leave it there. I can see you are getting a bit jumbled now. Maybe it’s the time of night. Anyway, goodbye, things to do.
Jun 26th 2013, 9:44 pm
#40
Concierge
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Joined: May 2006
Location: ex ex-pat, in Taunton
Posts: 27,217
Re: Ex pats in Spain to lose winter fuel payment
I thought it was about saving money. Me, in times of austerity, I prefer to help the British first. Sorry if that offends anyone but this is how I feel. I think the WFA should be means-tested, not on temperature but on wealth.
‘Overseas aid is nothing to do with 'the benefits system' as it is known.
It's about helping people in their own Country to create work projects, employment and prosperity - in their country.’
In the past 40 years the world has given 400 billion to the African continent. They are today as poor as the day we started.
‘Overseas aid is nothing to do with 'the benefits system' as it is known.
It's about helping people in their own Country to create work projects, employment and prosperity - in their country.’
In the past 40 years the world has given 400 billion to the African continent. They are today as poor as the day we started.
I agree that the UK should seriously examine it's overseas aid, that has been ring fenced, and the spending has gome up by 28% duting the time the NHS spending has increased by 4% and all other departmental spending has decreased, some by as much as 24%.
At the risk of being shot down in flames (I'm sure I will be) we are the architects of your own problems in places like Sudan etc, we pour in money to inprove the health and well being of children, so far more survive, but the parents don't stop having more children. They have very large families because, in the past before we gave them medicines, food etc, a large propartion of the children would die before adulthood, so there is a very big population increase. Perhaps we could spend a fair proportion of that money on educating the parents not to have such large families, as they don't need them any more.
Jun 26th 2013, 9:45 pm
#41
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: In the middle of 10million Olive Trees
Posts: 12,053
Re: Ex pats in Spain to lose winter fuel payment
I don't really think you are in a position to say what parts I am in agreement with and what parts I am not tbh. I might have various rationales for differen parts of the benefits system, it's just that this thread is about WFP, not some overall benefits discussion - I think there is another thread for that, but this was kind of 'breaking news'.
Seeings as the UK met office and all that goes with it is one of the most sophisticated in the world apparently I am sure they will come up with some convoluted way of measuring things on behalf of the government, if it goes through - I think the last time they tried to stop this payment to expats the EU intervened, but maybe gorgeous George has found a workaround this time.
Seeings as the UK met office and all that goes with it is one of the most sophisticated in the world apparently I am sure they will come up with some convoluted way of measuring things on behalf of the government, if it goes through - I think the last time they tried to stop this payment to expats the EU intervened, but maybe gorgeous George has found a workaround this time.
perhaps the met office should be privatised into non-existance
Jun 26th 2013, 9:54 pm
#42
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: In the middle of 10million Olive Trees
Posts: 12,053
Re: Ex pats in Spain to lose winter fuel payment
I thought it was about saving money. Me, in times of austerity, I prefer to help the British first. Sorry if that offends anyone but this is how I feel. I think the WFA should be means-tested, not on temperature but on wealth.
‘Overseas aid is nothing to do with 'the benefits system' as it is known.
It's about helping people in their own Country to create work projects, employment and prosperity - in their country.’
In the past 40 years the world has given 400 billion to the African continent. They are today as poor as the day we started.
‘Overseas aid is nothing to do with 'the benefits system' as it is known.
It's about helping people in their own Country to create work projects, employment and prosperity - in their country.’
In the past 40 years the world has given 400 billion to the African continent. They are today as poor as the day we started.
and with hindsight would we have made more effort to have spent it more wisely??
only about 20% of aid actually reaches the people who need it, the rest gets syphoned off along the way. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.
but why is the EU pumping money into caribbean countries helping them to grow more bannanas when the EU already has its own bannana growing plantations ??
Jun 26th 2013, 10:01 pm
#43
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Posts: 1,494
Re: Ex pats in Spain to lose winter fuel payment
As a hard working taxpayer here in the UK, admittedly working (often very long hours) in a job I thoroughly enjoy doing in spite of stressful situations at times, I really do resent the fact that part of my taxes have been sent out to thousands of expat fellow Britons who chose to desert these shores in order to spend their retirement in the sunshine and warm temperatures of Spain and other Mediterranean countries.
Of course they are absolutely entitled to their UK State Pensions by virtue of all their contributions subscribed to it, but the Winter Fuel Allowance?
I think not.
I can just imagine some of those lucky pensioners basking in the winter sunshine down there in a January temperature somewhere around 15C to 20C, lying on their sun loungers sipping on G & Ts or cans of ale straight out of the fridge or Pimms or whatever...all paid for out of their WFPs while inside their homes all the heating systems are firmly switched off while reading their expat copies of UK newspapers all the reports of snow and ice bound roads back in the UK and shivering pensioners huddled under blankets in front of their one bar electric fires in their frigid homes.
At last we have a sensible Government here in the UK making sure our hard earned taxation monies are not sent to people who do not really need them for purposes not really appropriate.
Of course they are absolutely entitled to their UK State Pensions by virtue of all their contributions subscribed to it, but the Winter Fuel Allowance?
I think not.
I can just imagine some of those lucky pensioners basking in the winter sunshine down there in a January temperature somewhere around 15C to 20C, lying on their sun loungers sipping on G & Ts or cans of ale straight out of the fridge or Pimms or whatever...all paid for out of their WFPs while inside their homes all the heating systems are firmly switched off while reading their expat copies of UK newspapers all the reports of snow and ice bound roads back in the UK and shivering pensioners huddled under blankets in front of their one bar electric fires in their frigid homes.
At last we have a sensible Government here in the UK making sure our hard earned taxation monies are not sent to people who do not really need them for purposes not really appropriate.
Jun 26th 2013, 10:32 pm
#44
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Re: Ex pats in Spain to lose winter fuel payment
Well I can't see gorgeous George using info from the Spanish met office, not that I would have anymore faith in the accuracy of that. So I guess it is what expats are going to be stuck with. No doubt it will be privatised at some point anyway.
Jun 26th 2013, 11:02 pm
#45
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,625
Re: Ex pats in Spain to lose winter fuel payment
Well looks to me like Spain was a step ahead of George bringing in the dreaded declaration and scaring the Spain resident expats into doing half and half so they can still winter in the sun and get WFA. Lets face it everyone knew it was on borrowed time. Lothianlad I appreciate your comment re taxes but lets not forget that many expats with government pensions still pay UK taxes just as you do.
