End of an Era ?
 

Wow ! :blink:
Just read in today's Daily Mirror, about Costa Blanca's draconian 0.5 milligram/millilitre limit, and of Alicante's 2470 positive tests and 400 prison sentences !

Anybody need the services of a good chauffeur ? :thumbup:

On reflection, it would appear that the Spanish Authorities, have finally realised the British (decades long), :wub: affair with their country is finally over, and in the current economical climate, with unsold, and uncompleted developments, and British Ex-Pats leaving in droves, the 'Gravy Train,' has well and truly hit the buffers.
They have, over the years, extracted the maximum amount of 'Wonga', from both ourselves (and the Germans, in the Balaerics), often for unfulfilled off-plan dream homes, which remain just that ! with the prospect of more looking extremely unlikely.
WHY NOT, therefore, squeeze the remainder 'till the pips squeak', and any unsuspecting tourist with a hire car ? :sneaky:
Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating everyone get 'bladdered', then take control of what is potentially a lethal weapon, but :ohmy: Ye Gods ! You can't even drive to a nice restaurant, out in the country, anymore and have even ONE beer ! :(
(Something to which to us Brits was synonymous with Spain).

Take a long hard look Lads and Lassies, it's Last Orders !

:beer::drinkwine:

Cheers (oops Sorry, now banned !)
Fredthered

Re: End of an Era ?
 

It's not just on the Costa Blanca and it's not draconian.

It's the same limit across the EU and has been for a long time, with the glaring exception of the UK, which seems to tolerate drunken drivers more than the rest of the EU despite pressure for them to change it.

Re: End of an Era ?
 

I would vote for a Europe wide zero limit, As it appears generally people are not to good at gauging how much they have had. Anyroad its cheaper to get drunk at home.

Re: End of an Era ?
 

That is of course very subjective.
OUR law does NOT tolerate drunken drivers any more than any other country, only our legal definition is different.

( ' He is not drunk, who can raise his head from the floor, and ask for MORE' ! ) :lol: (Joke)

Cheers
Fredthered

Re: End of an Era ?
 

That is every Countries Choice, Why move move to a new country then moan about their laws. (Supping on a nice cold beer) When the EU finally brings a common law in about drink driving, It will be a Zero Tolerance approach.

Re: End of an Era ?
 

Dont think it will be the same here as more local bars, but it is destroying the pub trade in the UK so I am told

Re: End of an Era ?
 

Well I haven't actually moved to Spain, yet.
Until now, I thought I would have liked to though.
Or are you and the total abstinence brigade, suggesting all British holidaymakers should find an alternative destination ?
Because three guesses whose economy is going to take a dump if they do.

(Strangely it's the No-Smoking Policy in Britain which is causing 35 or more pubs a week to close. The Drink Drive limit having been in place for a number of years)

Cheers
Fredthered

Re: End of an Era ?
 

Stick to soft drinks if you´re driving or use a cab

Jo xx

Re: End of an Era ?
 

Don't the drinking establishments make more profit on the soft drinks anyway? :confused:

Re: End of an Era ?
 

Absolute rubbish!

Re: End of an Era ?
 

No im not in the total abstinence brigade, However I do believe that anyone that is caught should be pistol whipped in to a coma on the road side, Failing that they should be strung out on another drink drivers car whilst the driver is plied with a large amount of beer then set off on a short journey, Let fate take its course. Punishment should fit the Crime.



Thats at the tip.

Re: End of an Era ?
 

I am in the total abstinance brigade, certainly when it comes to driving. Why is it so difficult?

Jo xx

Re: End of an Era ?
 

I believe in free choice, But if you dont tow the line then as I said punishment to fit the crime.

Re: End of an Era ?
 

they did when I ran bars:)

Re: End of an Era ?
 

I will say it again...

We buy in a barrel of Carling for £110

A barrel has 88 pints in it...

Its sold here, and in most places now, for £3.70 a pint....


So... The maths... £1.25 a pint or there abouts to buy.... £2.45 a pint profit.

Re: End of an Era ?
 

Well to take them in order :

'Stick to soft drinks if you´re driving or use a cab'
A little impractical (and expensive) for long distances.

'Don't the drinking establishments make more profit on the soft drinks anyway?'
Undoubtably! They now dispense lime juice, for example by Optic !
(as though it's a 'Spirit'), although once freely poured.


Absolute rubbish!
Don't tell me pal ! Tell the inhabitants of Moston, Manchester, for example who have lost FOUR out of six local pubs: The Ben Brierely, Gardners Arms, Museum, and The Moston Arms.

And as far as: 'Why is it so difficult' ? and 'Pistol Whipping' is concerned you obviously chose to (deliberately ?) ignore the latter part of my post :
'Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating everyone get 'bladdered', then take control of what is potentially a lethal weapon'.
However if you really do feel I am a deserving case,of the above, having consumed a pint of lager, I'd better give you the name of my local hostelry, so we can satisfactorally resolve this.

Cheers
Fredthered

Re: End of an Era ?
 

You could just multi quote but OK...

There is absolutely no EVIDENCE that the smoking ban has made a blind bit of difference. None.

Re: End of an Era ?
 

Stick to soft drinks then, or dont go long distances, what about a designated driver? In any case, how difficult is it to go without a pint of lager??

Jo xxx

Re: End of an Era ?
 

You know thats not true.


Jo xx

Re: End of an Era ?
 

Actually I don't.
As you know Jo I am involved in the hospitality industry and the figures just don't add up.

What has happened since the smoking ban is that more families are going out to pubs and that is driving a food led boom, what is starting to suffer is the inner city pubs, but in truth how can you attribute that to a smoking ban when there has been an economic squeeze for longer than just last year...

What has happened is that the Anti-ban lobby has mobalised VERY fast and is using not only the recession but also a change in our drinking habits to prove that the ban is killing off the industry.

Re: End of an Era ?
 

I think a lot can be said for price over service aswell. There are too many managed bars and pubs in the UK with total muppets who havent a clue.

They sell rank beer at more than half an hours minimum wage, I would go as far as to say the English independantly run bars in many parts of Spain are run no better.

I wouldnt say everyone is as fussy as me but I would feel there are people who have the same expectations of me and they are a percenatge who dont venture into some bars anymore.

As a comparision of where I live more rural but still small towns compared to Central London and suburbs of London where bars and pubs are far better run. My own opiniion of this is London being a more cosmopolitan city compared to say Essex on the whole, these cosmopolitan people have a higher expectation which the London bars commit to and wouldnt put up with the carp beer sold locally round here.

Having worked in a few bars in my time, its not a job I would want to go back and manage but if I did take on a inner city bar going downhill that was freehold im pretty confident I could implement some changes that would see customers coming back.

Well designed Inner city bars shouldnt be failing as Matt says as there is a lot more profit in that game than people truly make out.

Re: End of an Era ?
 

lol - youre missing the point jo. going to a bar and having a soft drink?!?
thats like going to a bookies just to watch a race and not put a bet on, or going to a nice restaurant and saying 'oh, no thanks, i dont want to eat, i'll have a nice glass of water'
and i'd love to see you trying to get a cab here where i live.....
:D

Re: End of an Era ?
 

I think many factors contribute to the decline in pub trade.

The price of beer itself is getting a bit silly and relative to wages is much more noticable than many moons ago when even the average working class guy could have a few sessions a week without feeling it in his pocket too much.

The increased awareness of police drink-driving checks and their major consequences is another possible factor,many more ppl.needing cars for work as against many years ago.

Possibly the biggest factor is the huge increase in the amount of entertainment available in the comfort of the home including the ease of conversing with others at very little cost via internet and other benefits of the same,games consoles,bigger selection of tv channels,dvds and all the rest.

Not sure about the effects of the smoking ban having heard arguements for and against,some enjoying their cosy little groups,rooms and outdoor spots.

Re: End of an Era ?
 

I agree, goto a cafe if you want that, as much as soft drinks are promoted here, I choose a licenced premises for alcohol.

jo, you need to distinguish between drink driving and drunk driving, id me more in favour of sobriety tests than that of breath tests. A zero limit is ridiculous and should not be punished whatsoever in any country

Re: End of an Era ?
 

I dont drink, I dont seem to need to and I dont like the taste

Jo xx

Re: End of an Era ?
 

I dont care. If you can have one drink and call that a good time then fine, drive, but does one drink make the difference??? if you´re talking about getting drunk to have a good time then are you up to driving???


Jo xx

Re: End of an Era ?
 

Thats what I mean Jo, being clearly Drunk at the wheel I dont agree with one bit, if your going out for a session leave the motor, if your just meeting up for lunch and you can handle a drink or two then I feel you shouldnt be punished that harshly, many will disagree im sure !

Morally I feel there is a line and I guess in Spain that has been adhered to in some ways, however things change, I guess if people wish to carry on then maybe they should move to South America, where its as lenient as it was in Spain 6+ years ago

Re: End of an Era ?
 

I have to agree with what others have said, you can hardly expect people to be good when the law is so liberal in itself. Why not have the limit at zero? That way if you go out there is none of this "I've only had a couple of drinks" crap.

Re: End of an Era ?
 

I suppose what I´m trying to say is that does only one pint do anything to make you feel happier than say a glass of coke or lemonade?? is that one pint the desider on whether you have a good evening or not. if not then have the lemonade, if it does then does that same effect have an effect when you drive? I dont know. I do have the occasional glass of wine if I wnrt to get drunk and it tastes foul, but on the upside, I´m usually totally bladdered if I dare to have two!!!! No, of course I dont drive, I wouldnt trust myself. My drivings bad enough sober LOL


Jo xx

Re: End of an Era ?
 

:beer::beer::heart::heart::kiss::devil_smile:

Re: End of an Era ?
 

I always liked the way Australia did it, not only do they have road blocks but also zero tolerance, same as Switzerland I think, at least then when you get in the car and you have had a pint, or a glass of wine you are over the legal limit period...

Re: End of an Era ?
 

The law has to have a margin of error, I dont think its possible to have a Zero, too many other possibilities, I know other countrys have a Zero limit, but are they Policed the same as other countries possibly not

My own view is the great majority of drunk drivers are way over the limit, Which suggests not that they misjudged, but that they totally ignore it. So they would ignore the 0% also.

Re: End of an Era ?
 

Thank you, digdug, Dick Dasterdly, and andyrich, for making those points :)
It's not so much having a 'good time', jojo, more enjoying the ambience, perhaps after a long hot drive to somewhere really scenic, where there happens to be a bar. (To me, there is nothing nicer than a very cold lager).
Obviously if you fancy a 'session', you'll get back and get the car parked up.
My girlfriend ALWAYS makes sure I'M the 'dedicated driver' ! :huh:
I don't know whether to be happy or sad for you, not liking a drink :lol:
(It can be a mixed blessing, it's true).
From my (admitted) limited driving experience in Mallorca, far from the likelyhood of being mown down from some drunken Brit, far more dangerous (and numerous), is the young Spaniard, in his 'hot-hatch', who thinks his surname is 'Fangio', or suicidal riders (either sex), of screaming two-stokes, having the rivets wrung out of them, cornering at angles of lean :ohmy: only dreampt of by a London Pizza Delivery Boy !
(Impossible to have a ZERO limit, as the body is capable of producing it's OWN alchohol, albeit a small amount, depending on what food is eaten).

Cheers
Fredthered

Re: End of an Era ?
 

The problem with a zero limit is that after even 8 hours or more of having a few drinks (without any driving involved) you can be just over the limit the following morning.

The current limit in Spain and most of Europe is very low and if the police had a zero tolerance attitude to that limit then more people would stop drinking and driving.

The reality in Spain is that the police take a pretty pragmatic view of it unless you have had an accident or they are having a bad hair day!

Re: End of an Era ?
 

The "official" rate is, nothing in the first hour after the start of drinking, but roughly a pint an hour is "pushed" through the body, and no matter what you do it it comes out at the same rate.
The OH has to attend a seminar twice a year on Responsible Retailing, its hosted, in part, by the police and they are bloody informative.

Re: End of an Era ?
 

I find it easier not to drink at all when I'm about to drive, rather than worry about how much I can actually drink and remain within the limit. What does worry me is the lingering effect from the night before, perhaps after a party, could you still be over the limit the next morning? Or even the afternoon?

I saw those home breathaliser kits for sale a few years ago, and wish I had bought one.

Re: End of an Era ?
 

You can buy them on ebay, I not sure how others would feel but personally I think driving pissed you are more in control than the next day when your really hungover, when I have been on a session I dont drive the next day either in the UK or Spain, I just try and sleep it off as long as I can.

If I cant wake up feeling normal I wont get in a car for any situation, daytime driving there is too many obstacles in the way if your still over that could lead to a accident certainly not being your fault but still your over, I just dont do it, but rarely do I find myself in that situation

Re: End of an Era ?
 

I agree and I wouldn't drive either if I felt that hungover the next day, but I'm thinking of even a normal few drinks at a party the night before, I can't stipulate an amount, that would vary between individuals, but how do you know that you are fit to drive the next day even if you feel that you are?

Thanks for the tip about ebay, I'll get the expert on to it, she's always buying 'bargains'.

Re: End of an Era ?
 

One of the things they do on the OH's corse is show how inaccurate those kits really are

Re: End of an Era ?
 

Here in Sweden they've had a close to zero limit from way way back.
In addition booze is generally frowned upon thru the week,partly because of the risk when driving next morning,also because its just not the thing to do.
The Govt totally control the sales with limited hours and exhorbitant prices.
However there are still loads of drunks and plonkies just about everywhere, mainly because of illegal stills and home-brew.
They had problems with Polish truckers driving off the ferries well drunk, as in the UK I believe.
Last time I came in there was a team of 30 or 40 police breathalising every single driver, cars trucks and all, and I think the same thing is starting in the UK.