spain

has anyone got this type ? not the oil filled ones, the expensive ones - saw some yesterday that were approx 350€ but from what I can understand are very cheap to run ?? wondered if anyone had any experience of using them

feliz navidad - bon nadal - merry christmas

twyntub

They're cheap to run because they don't produce a lot of heat! You can only get the same amount of heat out as you put in (i.e. 500 watts electricity in to 500 watts of heat out).

For that sort of money... you might consider a cheap aircon unit which can heat as well as cool. There you'll get perhaps 2 to 4 times the heat output from the electricity you put in - not possible with a 'normal' electric heater.

mikelincs

If you are buying aitr con, do NOT buy a cheap one, they aren't that efficient, and usually noisy, better to pay that bit more for good one, save you money in the long run. If you buy a portable one, make sure it is the type that uses a tube to vent outdoors.

chrismortley

Hi
I installed that type in our bedrooms a couple of years ago,as pointed out you don't get a great deal of heat but they are ideal for just taking the edge off a cold day.
If you can still find a store selling the pre-digital thermostat type they are a lot cheaper than 350 euros
I bought 750 watt ones from Leroy Merlin's & they were just over 100 euros if I remember correctly
Merry Christmas
Chris

twyntub

I don't know quite how they can justify that cost. You see these radiators in shopping centres - I suppose the equivalent of overpriced double glazing in the UK! A digital thermometer / timer will probably cost less than 4 euro to manufacture, call it 8 euro FOB.

I suppose the other thing worth mentioning is it will depend very much on the insulation in your home. At our rental, the walls are thick but uninsulated. A 1kW heater even in a small 8m2 room is barely noticable on really cold days.

GrapeEater

The general opinion in the Hondon Area (mountains) is that the inverter Air-con (even the better ones) are a waste of money unless you really need cool air in July/August. You WILL need extra heating in winter here.

We managed with ceiling fans and open windows in the summer, no problem.

Example: some people rushed into inverter Air-Con for the whole house (4 units) supplied/fitted at approx 3K / 4K €uros, then got in Calor Gas heaters/gas bottles or log burners. (1 ton of Olive wood is about €130 here) and some had fan-assisted fires but are still complaining of the cold now. Extra layers as well!!!. So the 5+K they spent could have got them Central Heating all over the house, gas from Repsol and just use ceiling light/fans for the cool air in summer. Also advantage of having constant hot water.

I know of 3 people who have now got CH and are very happy with it during this cold spell in the mountains.

The standard electric water boilers fitted bt the builder are already starting break down too.

GrapeEater

.... also people have been buying Electric under blankets as beds are like fridges at the moment. We got one... lovely !

twyntub

Air-con is a great way to heat a home - most new offices use this type of heating because of the energy saving - the trouble is when Joe Bloggs air-con / gardening / builders / pools and pizza delivery specialists come round to install it at your home, they don't specify the right equipment!

3 x 3kW output aircon units will not heat a home which loses 18kW through its external walls!

GrapeEater

That may be the technical answer and as usual, Expat's are guinea pigs but try telling that to the people who are very cold at the moment. One of the problems is that the pre-installed Air-con are not always best positioned for distribution to where people need it. I think the builder puts it where it is easiest?!?

If Air-con was that good how come nearly every one here is supplementing it with Oil heaters, log fires, calor-gas heaters, fan-assisted log burners, electric blankets, central heating, slippers, dressing gowns, bed-socks and extra bedding? It's damn cold in these houses at the moment... make no mistake. Maybe these villas are only built for summer living as there is no insulation.

twyntub

Most units I've seen 'pre-installed' are not big enough for the job. Doesn't matter how good they are - a bit like trying to run a mains telly from a 9v battery, or put the engine from your hedge trimmer into a Ford Mondeo!

The second problem is position. A single unit high up on the wall is fine for cold air (denser, falls) - but not for hot air (less dense, rises). The net result is that the heat simply stays near the ceiling, whilst your slipper-covered feet are millimeters away from that lovely stone floor...

For homes, most air-con manufacturers produce low-level radiator-style internal units or can interface with underfloor heating systems. These systems are probably within budget for most pre-installed systems, except for the fact that most builders seem to want to make at least 75% margin on everything.

Anyway - why are you lot so cold?? We're up the road from you, even higher up the mountain, in a rattly old finca with no insulation, a 400 year old 12 foot high front door with more gaps than the London Underground, and old wooden windows where the glass doesn't fit. We manage with a single 199 euro Carrefour air-con and a gas heater in this lovely warm weather!

lee8

You just have to live with the fact Spain doesn`t insulate there houses because of the temp in summertime, most Spaniards will just wear extra cloths and sit under a warm blanket in the winter, next to a heater of any kind.

My grand mother has a coal fire type that sits under the table, very safe when you consider the table cloth hang very close, but thats Spanish for you, they really don`t care how you get hot, so long as you get hot.

twyntub

All the more reason to insulate!

The house we're buying has cavity wall insulation and aluminium-frame double glazing, so is probably roughly equivalent to a mid 1980's home in the UK after the 1982 UK building regs came out.

I'm not sure when the regs were changed in Spain, but I guess all the houses on Oasis where GrapeEater is will have some form of insulation. The Spanish building regs seem to be gradually catching up with European standards.

spanishfamily

When our house was being finished the builders asked if we wanted radiators put in. We wondered why - this was sunny Spain after all! Anyway we decided to have them and are so glad we did! Our Spanish neighbours do not have any heating except for the fireplace (rarely lit) and the under-table heater which the old people love. Their houses are arctic inside!

EsuriJohn

Hi twyntub,

September 2006 was the last change which concerned energy conservation with compulsory solar water heating for domestic premises and photovoltaic electric generation for commercial premises with upgraded insulation and other measures.

Regards,

John.

currymuncher