Lynn R

I saw this report today about a group of 206 migrants who arrived on Spanish soil by small boats and are being accommodated in a 4 star seaside hotel in El Morche, not far from where I live. I couldn't help but contrast the tone of the reporting with the likes of the Daily Mail or Express in the UK.

Lamín, migrante en Torrox: "Como voy a prosperar si en mi país no tengo ni para comer" (malagahoy.es)

Ronnyone

One thing to consider though is that many arriving in spain are intent on not actually staying but moving up to Northern countries and particularly UK. So the reality is that immigrating isn't seen in the same light in spain as maybe UK which is the final desired destination for many and it is this that probably causes so much of the more extreme reactions in uk media.

Lynn R

Particularly the UK? I think you have swallowed the popular myth. Several EU countries accepted substantially more applications for asylum in 2022 than the UK did. The UK approved 18,699 applications and Spain accepted over 35,000 - Germany and France accepted many more.

Asylum applications in Europe 2022 | Statista

How many people do we grant protection to? - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

What the UK doesn't have is an effective system for dealing with applications (there is an enormous backlog) or for removing people whose applications are rejected. A benefits system which is residence based, not contributions based, does not help either, nor does the fact that the majority of the British public have repeatedly rejected ID cards.

Common European Asylum System (europa.eu)

rspltd

An interesting posting but one which attempts to compare apples and pears. The information provided refers to the amount of applications received by several EU countries, and incidentally , for completeness goes on to say the majority are rejected . It doesn’t say what happens to these people because as we know they jettison their papers when they are ‘rescued’. This is compared with the number of applications that the U.K. has approved. Yes there is a backlog because in a number of cases the people themselves make it difficult to be identified even refusing to state their country of origin. I’m afraid a complex issue such as this deserves a better response rather than one that is disingenuous. I was told by a Spanish friend yesterday the the daily number of immigrants into the Canaries is causing major issues and that a number are being airlifted into Madrid on a daily basis. I haven’t bothered to verify this but have no reason to believe it’s not true. Finally the issue of having or not having identity cards is really a red herring as they would serve no relevant purpose.

Moses2013

There are hardly any real figures for economic migrants, but the UK has very few refugees compared to other countries and Germany, France, Italy and then Spain now have the most (Ignoring Poland that have taken millions of Ukrainians). If you look at population size that changes from year to year and Cyprus always had many for it's size. It used to be the case that many headed north, but people also return to Spain as it's too cold for Africans and very popular now. Overall there are more than 3.3 million refugees in Germany, so that's hard to beat, but things change quickly.

It's also very hard to track all people and many can be registered in Germany and then spend time in other countries. It's not just Africa and with the Ukraine we see more and more people fleeing, be it economic migrants or refugees. As mentioned on another thread, on our street Ukrainians have bought land and are starting to build a villa, they are still registered refugees.

Listen Very Carefully

One of the problems that the UK has caused for itself because they have always wanted to "Control our borders" is not joining the Schengen zone.By not joining it means that anyone who arrives "illegally" or cannot get a favourable asylum decision has to leave the Schengen area forthwith.The answer is that they say they want to go to the UK but the UK will only accept an application if they are present in the country hence the small boats.If the UK were in Schengen then EU countries such as France would be equired to return them from whence they came.
The immigration rhetoric in the UK is getting really siilly The UK immigration minister recently claimed that the only reason Labour wants to build new towns is so they can fill them with refugees.And the dimwits are believing him

EU.flag

Nope, it never had anything to do with Schengen zone. While UK was in EU, it was never member of Schengen, but still able to return refugees back to France or EU.

What you are referring is know as Dublin convention for EU member states only. So, by leaving EU, UK has left Dublin convention and lost right to return refugees back to EU.

https://home-affairs.ec.europa.eu/po...-regulation_en

rspltd

“If the UK were in Schengen then EU countries such as France would be equired to return them from whence they came.” If this were so, why has France which is in Schengen, not returned them back to one of the many safe countries they have passed through.

EU.flag

Please read my post above. Schengen has nothing to do with refugees.

Because they have not applied for asylum, but have temporary "protected status" while in France. EU countries dont have same immigration rules.

Lynn R

The article I originally linked to mentioned that this group of migrants originally landed in the Canaries, so I am well aware of that. From what I have read, over 9,000 people arrived by that route in the past month, and many were airlifted to Madrid as the numbers exceeded capacity for them to be processed in the location of arrival. Now they are obviously being dispersed to other locations around the country, which is sensible. From the EU Common Asylum policy I lined to earlier

"Member states will be obliged to have in place sufficient reception capacity at all times, including in times of disproportionate pressure."

So Spain is doing what is expected of an EU member state.

The hotel in El Morche would otherwise be closing for the winter now, and as it has 77 rooms that means the vast majority of the 206 migrants being accommodated there will be sharing 3 to a room which is not luxurious to my mind, in fact given the size of most hotel rooms it will be rather crowded.

It does seem strange though that according to the quotes in the article, the new arrivals are quite up front about their motives for coming to Europe are to make a better life for themselves and be able to send money to families back home (and wouldn't we all if we were in their situation), and escaping war or persecution is not mentioned, so I don't know on what grounds they think they can claim to be able to be allowed to stay.

As for the claim that the backlog in dealing with asylum applications in the UK is caused by the applicants failing to provide papers proving their identity or nationality, are we expected to believe that it is only arrivals to the UK in small boats who do this? I am sure other countries have to confront the same problem yet EU member states (as demonstrated by the Statistica figures) seem to be able to deal with a greater proportion of the applications they receive - the Statistica figures show the number of applications received and the number approved for the member states. Spain received 48,000 last year and approved over 35,000 of them. The UK received 81,000 (many fewer than Germany or France) and approved 18,000. The official Government graph regarding the number of applications awaiting resolution shows the very steep rise in the number outstanding over the past few years, 130,000 as at the end of last year.

Oh, and the Home Office just recently admitted that the UK's much vaunted points based immigration system introduced after "taking back control" has not worked either.

Suella Braverman set to target migrants by increasing the salary threshold for entry to the UK from £26,200 as Home Office admits 'points-based system hasn't worked' | Daily Mail Online

VFR

3 to a room !
That is simply not on Lynn and could you not let those in control know that you are more than happy to put some of the illegal immigrants up at your place to help the situation..

DLC

Here are a few basic definitions to help you understand the difference between "asylum seeker", "refugee", and "immigrant". It doesn't mention "expat", but that's the same as "immigrant".

VFR

According to that link of twaddle you posted I should have said Migrant, but I see that you failed to mention that one in your summary (but you knew that of course)

rspltd

Had it been realised that the basis of the ‘facts’ were from the Daily Mail, I suspect this debate would have been seventy truncated.

Moses2013

Luxurious is relative, I remember stories of of people fleeing war in Germany and they were just happy to find shelter in a horse stable. Of course these are different times, the government is still sending the wrong signals by using holiday resort hotels next to the beach and 3 to a room is actually pretty common for young lads going on holiday.

We've seen the same in Ireland and there are a several hotels that said they would close for a few months to house refugees, nearly 2 years later nothing has changed.
The owners are receiving so much money that they see no reason to reopen to the public.

Why do they think they can stay? If you have no identification documents you'll get a toleration permit, they can't be deported and this information spreads across the globe.