Dying intestate
Oct 14th 2011, 2:33 pm
#1
Just Joined
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 6
Dying intestate
My mother died earlier this year, she lived in Spain and owned one third of a house with my father and I. She did not have a Spanish will and for an unknown reason which we unfortunately did not notice until recently, her UK will states that it does not include Spain.
We obtained the certificates from the Spanish Ministry of Justice to prove the lack of Spanish will and insurance.
We obtained probate from the UK using a solicitor. What I think he should of obtained was Letters of administration as the probate certificate still states that it does not include Spain.
So we are now at the point where we have clarified that there is no will relevant to Spain.
In this situation, the notary and more importantly the land registry has requested a "Certificado de ley" (certificate of law) to prove that my father, according to UK law inherits my mother's assets. Which by UK law, he does.
The notary and the land registry inform me that this task is easy and inexpensive as all I need to do is go to the British Consulate.
The British Consulate used to offer this service but now advise contacting a lawyer. I have contacted a few lawyers in Spain and the UK one had quoted over 500 Euros + VAT the others do not offer the service separate to the whole inheritance process, all in the UK have no idea what I am talking about. One Spanish lawyer said the only way to get a certificate of law is from a English Notary public, they have a contact and would only charge 2000 Euros to do it for me! On contacting a few notary publics myself in the UK, they have no idea what I need.
Basically, now the land registry has seen the probate certificate, he will not accept anything less than a certificate of law, which is apparently an official document but nobody can give me a straight answer on what exactly a "certificate of law" is or where to get it from.... please, please, please, does anyone out there know what I should be doing, any help would be VERY GRATEFULLY received!
We obtained the certificates from the Spanish Ministry of Justice to prove the lack of Spanish will and insurance.
We obtained probate from the UK using a solicitor. What I think he should of obtained was Letters of administration as the probate certificate still states that it does not include Spain.
So we are now at the point where we have clarified that there is no will relevant to Spain.
In this situation, the notary and more importantly the land registry has requested a "Certificado de ley" (certificate of law) to prove that my father, according to UK law inherits my mother's assets. Which by UK law, he does.
The notary and the land registry inform me that this task is easy and inexpensive as all I need to do is go to the British Consulate.
The British Consulate used to offer this service but now advise contacting a lawyer. I have contacted a few lawyers in Spain and the UK one had quoted over 500 Euros + VAT the others do not offer the service separate to the whole inheritance process, all in the UK have no idea what I am talking about. One Spanish lawyer said the only way to get a certificate of law is from a English Notary public, they have a contact and would only charge 2000 Euros to do it for me! On contacting a few notary publics myself in the UK, they have no idea what I need.
Basically, now the land registry has seen the probate certificate, he will not accept anything less than a certificate of law, which is apparently an official document but nobody can give me a straight answer on what exactly a "certificate of law" is or where to get it from.... please, please, please, does anyone out there know what I should be doing, any help would be VERY GRATEFULLY received!
Oct 14th 2011, 2:54 pm
#2
MODERATOR
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: Costa Valencia
Posts: 14,800
Re: Dying intestate
As Concierges for the Spanish section of BE we would like to say hello and welcome.
BE is a very large expat website, so if you have problems finding your way around we have concierges who will try to direct you. The moderators for the Spanish forums are Mitzyboy and Fred James, moderators are there to ensure that the site runs smoothly within the rules of BE. Problems and complaints should always be addressed to a moderador who will look into the matter and deal with it efficiently and fairly. Our members who post in the Spain Forums are friendly and helpful with a wealth of knowledge of the issues of living in Spain. At the top of the page you will find a quirkily named thread called Free Beer which is full of important and useful information. Hope you enjoy your time participating in the forums.
Please let us know if you need any further help.
Rosemary and Graham
BE is a very large expat website, so if you have problems finding your way around we have concierges who will try to direct you. The moderators for the Spanish forums are Mitzyboy and Fred James, moderators are there to ensure that the site runs smoothly within the rules of BE. Problems and complaints should always be addressed to a moderador who will look into the matter and deal with it efficiently and fairly. Our members who post in the Spain Forums are friendly and helpful with a wealth of knowledge of the issues of living in Spain. At the top of the page you will find a quirkily named thread called Free Beer which is full of important and useful information. Hope you enjoy your time participating in the forums.
Please let us know if you need any further help.
Rosemary and Graham
Oct 14th 2011, 3:14 pm
#3
BE Forum Addict
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,878
Re: Dying intestate
Sorry to read of your loss, my sympathies to you and your family.
What you are saying is your mum lived in Spain and had a UK will. That will has been dealt with and is settled ?
The Spanish side of the estate has yet to be settled yes ?
All I can offer is this which probably is not relevant. My husband died 2 years ago intestate in any country. Deemed resident in UK and ALL affairs are dealt with under UK law and I am told/assured that Spain abides with that ruling. This I have yet to find out if will actually be the case. I need to have Grant of Letters of Administration before the Spanish side can be dealt with.
What you are saying is your mum lived in Spain and had a UK will. That will has been dealt with and is settled ?
The Spanish side of the estate has yet to be settled yes ?
All I can offer is this which probably is not relevant. My husband died 2 years ago intestate in any country. Deemed resident in UK and ALL affairs are dealt with under UK law and I am told/assured that Spain abides with that ruling. This I have yet to find out if will actually be the case. I need to have Grant of Letters of Administration before the Spanish side can be dealt with.
Oct 14th 2011, 4:20 pm
#4
Just Joined
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 6
Re: Dying intestate
Sorry to read of your loss, my sympathies to you and your family.
What you are saying is your mum lived in Spain and had a UK will. That will has been dealt with and is settled ?
The Spanish side of the estate has yet to be settled yes ?
All I can offer is this which probably is not relevant. My husband died 2 years ago intestate in any country. Deemed resident in UK and ALL affairs are dealt with under UK law and I am told/assured that Spain abides with that ruling. This I have yet to find out if will actually be the case. I need to have Grant of Letters of Administration before the Spanish side can be dealt with.
What you are saying is your mum lived in Spain and had a UK will. That will has been dealt with and is settled ?
The Spanish side of the estate has yet to be settled yes ?
All I can offer is this which probably is not relevant. My husband died 2 years ago intestate in any country. Deemed resident in UK and ALL affairs are dealt with under UK law and I am told/assured that Spain abides with that ruling. This I have yet to find out if will actually be the case. I need to have Grant of Letters of Administration before the Spanish side can be dealt with.
According to the notary we are dealing with, a UK national's inheritance will be dealt with under UK law, although UK law states that it should be done by Spanish law!?! He stated that if we had a grant of probate that did not state Spain was not included, it would have been accepted.
Oct 14th 2011, 4:46 pm
#5
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Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Back home
Posts: 4,573
Re: Dying intestate
My mum's UK will has been dealt with, it has yet to be needed to settle anything in the UK but has been proved to be irrelevant to Spain.
According to the notary we are dealing with, a UK national's inheritance will be dealt with under UK law, although UK law states that it should be done by Spanish law!?! He stated that if we had a grant of probate that did not state Spain was not included, it would have been accepted.
According to the notary we are dealing with, a UK national's inheritance will be dealt with under UK law, although UK law states that it should be done by Spanish law!?! He stated that if we had a grant of probate that did not state Spain was not included, it would have been accepted.
http://expresslegalcafe.com
Last edited by Lionda; Oct 14th 2011 at 4:51 pm.
Oct 14th 2011, 5:17 pm
#6
Senior Moment
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: On the edge
Posts: 20,460
Re: Dying intestate
My mum's UK will has been dealt with, it has yet to be needed to settle anything in the UK but has been proved to be irrelevant to Spain.
According to the notary we are dealing with, a UK national's inheritance will be dealt with under UK law, although UK law states that it should be done by Spanish law!?! He stated that if we had a grant of probate that did not state Spain was not included, it would have been accepted.
According to the notary we are dealing with, a UK national's inheritance will be dealt with under UK law, although UK law states that it should be done by Spanish law!?! He stated that if we had a grant of probate that did not state Spain was not included, it would have been accepted.
Oct 14th 2011, 5:32 pm
#8
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Joined: Jan 2006
Location: On the edge
Posts: 20,460
Re: Dying intestate
OK, I was going to suggest a good abogado, but they are in Gandia which is too far I guess
It's a wierd one I guess, because the Spanish will more often than not will defer to the UK law, but ewhen the UK will specifically states it doesnt cover the Spanish part, it sounds complicated
It's a wierd one I guess, because the Spanish will more often than not will defer to the UK law, but ewhen the UK will specifically states it doesnt cover the Spanish part, it sounds complicated
Oct 14th 2011, 5:46 pm
#9
Just Joined
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 6
Re: Dying intestate
OK, I was going to suggest a good abogado, but they are in Gandia which is too far I guess
It's a wierd one I guess, because the Spanish will more often than not will defer to the UK law, but ewhen the UK will specifically states it doesnt cover the Spanish part, it sounds complicated
It's a wierd one I guess, because the Spanish will more often than not will defer to the UK law, but ewhen the UK will specifically states it doesnt cover the Spanish part, it sounds complicated
Oct 16th 2011, 8:23 am
#11
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Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Back home
Posts: 4,573
Re: Dying intestate
We have taken some advice from a Spanish Lawyer in our local town and he is unable to help. He thought that a certificate of law came from the Consulate and he is unable to provide it. I asked him if a translated copy of the actual act of parliament (Intestates Estates Act 1952) with Apostille attached would be sufficient and he said that was not what the Land registry was asking for and could not guarantee it would be sufficient or ask the land registry again concerning our case!
Oct 16th 2011, 9:01 am
#12
Forum Regular
Joined: May 2009
Location: Frigiliana
Posts: 97
Re: Dying intestate
I don't know if this is any help at all, but this is a sentance in a letter to a Uk solicitor from an abogado for a case that seems similar to this one.
"Mr X has not made a Spanish Will, so we need the English Probate with the Apostille of the Hague Convention and translated into Spanish in order to make the deeds of the half of the house into the name of Mrs X and then register into the Land Registry."
Possibly this is your missing documentation. I had to look it up and I think this will help: www.apostille.org.uk
Good Luck
Meant to add, the cost is only 59.79 GBP + VAT, and according to the website Spain will accept the Apostille Certificate in place of any further legalisation
"Mr X has not made a Spanish Will, so we need the English Probate with the Apostille of the Hague Convention and translated into Spanish in order to make the deeds of the half of the house into the name of Mrs X and then register into the Land Registry."
Possibly this is your missing documentation. I had to look it up and I think this will help: www.apostille.org.uk
Good Luck
Meant to add, the cost is only 59.79 GBP + VAT, and according to the website Spain will accept the Apostille Certificate in place of any further legalisation
Last edited by Jontee; Oct 16th 2011 at 9:06 am. Reason: Extra detail
Oct 16th 2011, 11:06 am
#13
Retired and loving it!
Joined: Sep 2007
Location: Ontinyent - Valencia region (campo)
Posts: 5,160
Re: Dying intestate
I don't know if this is any help at all, but this is a sentance in a letter to a Uk solicitor from an abogado for a case that seems similar to this one.
"Mr X has not made a Spanish Will, so we need the English Probate with the Apostille of the Hague Convention and translated into Spanish in order to make the deeds of the half of the house into the name of Mrs X and then register into the Land Registry."
Possibly this is your missing documentation. I had to look it up and I think this will help: www.apostille.org.uk
Good Luck
Meant to add, the cost is only 59.79 GBP + VAT, and according to the website Spain will accept the Apostille Certificate in place of any further legalisation
"Mr X has not made a Spanish Will, so we need the English Probate with the Apostille of the Hague Convention and translated into Spanish in order to make the deeds of the half of the house into the name of Mrs X and then register into the Land Registry."
Possibly this is your missing documentation. I had to look it up and I think this will help: www.apostille.org.uk
Good Luck
Meant to add, the cost is only 59.79 GBP + VAT, and according to the website Spain will accept the Apostille Certificate in place of any further legalisation
Surely, given that the UK will SPECIFICALLY excludes Spain, this can't help?
Oct 16th 2011, 12:24 pm
#14
Forum Regular
Joined: May 2010
Location: Isla Redonda
Posts: 194
Re: Dying intestate
A fiend of ours has had the same problem. Our solicitor in Spain told him to use this company
De Cotta, Makenna & Santa Fe They are in Nerja, Coin and Mijas
Caz
De Cotta, Makenna & Santa Fe They are in Nerja, Coin and Mijas
Caz
Oct 16th 2011, 1:50 pm
#15
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: In the middle of 10million Olive Trees
Posts: 12,053
Re: Dying intestate
My mother died earlier this year, she lived in Spain and owned one third of a house with my father and I. She did not have a Spanish will and for an unknown reason which we unfortunately did not notice until recently, her UK will states that it does not include Spain.
We obtained the certificates from the Spanish Ministry of Justice to prove the lack of Spanish will and insurance.
We obtained probate from the UK using a solicitor. What I think he should of obtained was Letters of administration as the probate certificate still states that it does not include Spain.
So we are now at the point where we have clarified that there is no will relevant to Spain.
In this situation, the notary and more importantly the land registry has requested a "Certificado de ley" (certificate of law) to prove that my father, according to UK law inherits my mother's assets. Which by UK law, he does.
The notary and the land registry inform me that this task is easy and inexpensive as all I need to do is go to the British Consulate.
The British Consulate used to offer this service but now advise contacting a lawyer. I have contacted a few lawyers in Spain and the UK one had quoted over 500 Euros + VAT the others do not offer the service separate to the whole inheritance process, all in the UK have no idea what I am talking about. One Spanish lawyer said the only way to get a certificate of law is from a English Notary public, they have a contact and would only charge 2000 Euros to do it for me! On contacting a few notary publics myself in the UK, they have no idea what I need.
Basically, now the land registry has seen the probate certificate, he will not accept anything less than a certificate of law, which is apparently an official document but nobody can give me a straight answer on what exactly a "certificate of law" is or where to get it from.... please, please, please, does anyone out there know what I should be doing, any help would be VERY GRATEFULLY received!
We obtained the certificates from the Spanish Ministry of Justice to prove the lack of Spanish will and insurance.
We obtained probate from the UK using a solicitor. What I think he should of obtained was Letters of administration as the probate certificate still states that it does not include Spain.
So we are now at the point where we have clarified that there is no will relevant to Spain.
In this situation, the notary and more importantly the land registry has requested a "Certificado de ley" (certificate of law) to prove that my father, according to UK law inherits my mother's assets. Which by UK law, he does.
The notary and the land registry inform me that this task is easy and inexpensive as all I need to do is go to the British Consulate.
The British Consulate used to offer this service but now advise contacting a lawyer. I have contacted a few lawyers in Spain and the UK one had quoted over 500 Euros + VAT the others do not offer the service separate to the whole inheritance process, all in the UK have no idea what I am talking about. One Spanish lawyer said the only way to get a certificate of law is from a English Notary public, they have a contact and would only charge 2000 Euros to do it for me! On contacting a few notary publics myself in the UK, they have no idea what I need.
Basically, now the land registry has seen the probate certificate, he will not accept anything less than a certificate of law, which is apparently an official document but nobody can give me a straight answer on what exactly a "certificate of law" is or where to get it from.... please, please, please, does anyone out there know what I should be doing, any help would be VERY GRATEFULLY received!
Moderator note - I am not related to or employed by anyone to do with the company I have suggested
rgds