Maybe1day

Is it later this year that Afganistan will be given back to the Taliban? I guess that drone attacks there will be stepped then but from what operating base?
M

Beaverstate

Interesting point that" there should be no drone attacks on nations we are not at war with" War declaration against terrorists is a difficult thing where national boundaries come into play.

Dick Dasterdly

Were it only so simple.

Morally your comment may make sense, but unless we continue meddling with those who pose a threat and are planning to move against us, it won't be very long before they are meddling with us and causing mass destruction and death on our own streets.

We have little choice other than to trust our Govt and Military to meddle only where they believe it is essential for our own protection.

Domino

all terrorists are is dissidents of one sort or another, some call them freedom fighters, some opposition forces - there seem to be endless titles for these people.
we have the United Nations that should be used to mediate and jump on nations that openly as well as covertly provide a home and succor to such people.
Pakistan is a good case - bleating about Bin Laden, but are you telling me that no one knew he was in the house across the road from a police station??

when they are in other sovereign states they really should be left alone. it is when they come here and start that we should take action - and I don't mean ban them from the country to find they can't go "home" because they may be tortured. IIRC death by hanging is still on the statutes for treason and acts of war. Make a show trial of it, give the others a warning.

as to "trust" of our Govt/Military - the former cannot be trusted to do the decent thing by the latter when they break the rules. It is possible and usual for a military man to get longer in prison for shooting a potential terrorist who isn't than for a murderer who rampages the nations streets.
If any of us were put under the stress our military are put under I am sure there would be more breakdowns and "friendly fire" incidents (which the US seem at times to be most sanguine about.)

They are the ones making up the rules to suit the occasion. We may be lucky to find out some of what they have done in 100 years time, or never.

Dick Dasterdly

Your post appears self contradictory to a certain degree and little doubt our own Govt will continue to be damned if they do and damned if they don't.

As for leaving Sovereign States alone, what's to be done when they are aware, as you believe yourself, that they are harbouring terrorists who are planning against us ???

Leave them alone to eventually get into our country as some no doubt will, and cause widespread death and destruction on our streets ???

For instance, would you still be saying they should have been left alone if they had successfully perpetrated atrocities in our home countries against your own loved ones ???

HBG

We need adequate anti-terrorism measures to protect us from the terrorists who want to kill us, no matter where we are. Withdrawing our troops from the terrorists home countries is no longer sufficient, they've smelt our blood on our own streets and they want more of it.

The 'new' terrorists are home grown British citizens trained in the conflict zones of Syria, the Sudan and elsewhere. Al Queada is what unites them, whether it's a base in Islamabad or Wakefield.

We're going to need more and more drones and more and more spooks to tell us where to send them.

Domino

as you suggest - Damned if you do and Damned if you don't

but why go out there looking for trouble, why not improve the customs checks and stop the people from entering - and we have enough problems with our homegrown

just remember that when the Govt took positive action against the IRA who had bombed the UK by sending in the SAS the IRA called foul.

attacking people who are learning their "skills" in other countries like Afghanistan and Pakistan only upsets those countries, especially when innocents are killed by the big nasties from the US and UK. Makes for good publicity that indicates "we" are worse than the terrorists and started it all.

and what about the permissions of other countries the drones (some of which are operated from linconshire) for overfly on the way to their destination. If they should feel they are also being targetted then the permissions will be revoked.

IMO better to get your hands on them when they hit these shores and knock the shit out of them in such a way that they don't have an excuse for claiming £millions in compensation.

Isn't there an island off the north of Scotland that still has anthrax spores ??

Dick Dasterdly

Once again, were it ever so simple.

Relying on one last line of defence regardless of improvements would be extremely foolish.
All systems are fallible to some degree.
How do you expect them to recognize every single would-be terrorist ?

In any event there are other means for terrorists to enter the country than via the the standard customs controls.

The more lines of defence and protection, the better in my book.

Maybe1day

Watching the average US war movie the guy who gives up his life to blow up the bridge and it's defenders is a hero, The one who indiscriminately uses his Messersmidt to bomb the enemy is a coward. How times have changed....
M

Maybe1day

The battle is already lost unless "Drastic" steps are taken. If nothing important happens soon, In the west, one hundred years will see a radical change in religious belief and a face off with India and on a wider scale China.
Maybe the timescale is a little short at 5 generations so maybe it should be 10but this will happen...

Domino

well I won't be here then - this is one of those cases where we have to face the reality of the here and now


whilst I agree with a military strategy that has more than one line of defence, I do not agree with a military strategy that has a line of defence 3544.42 miles (5704.04 km) from home. That is forward of the forward line.

We are not alone in all of this, we have to rely on our other human beings along the way to act as a form of defence, both of themselves and others.
There are, as the crow flies, approximately 12 countries between us and Afghanistan whilst Pakistan is one country beyond that.
We should be liaising with those countries to assist them with their defence not taking the US attitude of being the policemen of the world.
More can be done against countries by economic means rather than flying drones in to knock out a terrorist training camp located in the middle of an active school, mosque or similar where innocents are being used as a hostage/wall against attack.

Difficult one I know, but better to keep the enemy at arms length than to go out there and take him on in his own terretory
The GDY's did that in the 60's - and it took them over 20 years and over 60,000 of their own dead and MIA before they had to leave Saigon in a hurry.

`

Dick Dasterdly

It's a small World that we live in these days and constantly getting smaller.

As we've already seen such distances are now of little or no consequence or barrier of any sort against terrorist movements and activities.

Domino

then with all the Western Technology why do we get the impression they are winning
they shoot and bomb our soldiers and take us to international and UK courts for commiting atrocities against their people whilst we just give in and pay up
meanwhile our soldiers end up in court for responding to their attacks in the best way they know accused of murder - and get sent down because they are found guilty whilst their adversaries end up getting compensatory payments from the Defence Budget


too many fluffy bunnies around that would suddenly shit themselves if they actually spent some time in combat instead sitting at home or in an office worrying about why this and that didnt agree with the Rules of Combat that don't cover the actual situation when the RoC was written decades before to cover a different situation.

rugbymatt

http://m.vice.com/en_uk/read/yemens-...ce=vicetwitter

Dick Dasterdly

Thankfully there has only been one single serious atrocity in the UK against one single person in the last few years or more.

I don't put that down solely to good fortune.