Chiclanagir

Just thought the person who recommended the furniture shop on Pago industrial estate would be interested that I went in there and was impressed. I am also now 135 euros lighter as I ended up buying a wooden rocking chair!

poollounger

That chair had my name on it Glynis!!! Glad you liked the place. The teak extending dining table with the tulip backed chairs is great too..when I can afford it!!! All our beds came from there and we paid the same for mattress and base as they were charging just for the mattresses in Briole.

poollounger

Of course you are right Mitzi...but there are two separate discussions here..one is the value of any job...does any actor deserve the huge fees he gets if he is a name ?? Shouldn't we pay street sweepers and rubbish collectors more as they are absolutely essential where as TV presenters are not ?? Does a supermodel deserve huge fees for using assets that are a gift of nature, in contrast to low paid and well trained nurses ??
Re the above, surely it is the Spanish system that is at fault...the way a vendor states the price he wants and the agent adds his commission on top. I saw a country house near Arcos which was way beyond my limit at Eu240000. I passed, but have seen it since at Eu 180000. May I end with a question?? Wold it not be simpler to buy and sell by putting an ad in the local press as you have previously suggested ?? Of course agents hype prices....not just in real estate..with overseas buyers who have no knowledge of local values, it is difficult to gauge the true value of a property. This happens with overseas buyers in Britain as well. When I eventually made my choice in Chiclana I did wonder if I had perhaps paid a hyped price, hyped by either the builder or agent. When I showed the place to my Spanish friends who live in Seville and have a lovley place in Barossa, they said it was an excellent price and a very good property. They did acknowledge that I may have got it a little cheaper direct from the builder, but appreciated that with limited Spanish and time for hunting an agent was a boon.

Unexpat

Yes, no and yes. Yes where asset demand exceeds supply, and no where it's the other way around. Rare assets, skills, experience and knowledge command a premium in a market where there is demand, as we all know. Should they? Well that's down to the consumers - caveat emptor.

But hell, if I had my way, nurses would be paid a hell of a lot more than many bureacratic civil serveant pen-pushers Unfortunately, the majority of UK nurses are in the NHS and that is what dictates their wages. They are outside the market of supply and demand, artificially protected from market forces by a state nationalised system.

But I digress. Are Estate agents worth the money they charge? No. Do they have knowledge, experience and skills? Yes, but it's not worth as much as they charge because anyone with the time to spare can do it themselves with acceptable end results and without a major effort.

Estate Agent rates are artificially inflated because often consumers (both buyers and sellers) are under time pressures and the service that is being offered is explicitly to bring together buyers and sellers in the least possible amount of time.

So it's simple. You either pay the artificially inflated rate to get the quickest results and grin and bear it, or do it yourself, save a small fortune, but take the risk that it will take you longer to sell and longer to find a suitable property to buy. With the latter approach you may be able to hear the phrase "Estate Agent" and smile, rather than giving yourself a small coronary each time.

I don't believe that Estate Agents in the Spanish property market are going to reduce their fees voluntarily to the level in the UK market (which are just about tolerable), any time soon. Something is going to have to happen to force them to change. Ordinarily that would be competition, but as long as demand for properties on the costas and other sought-after areas exceeds supply, then competition isn't going to be an effective counter. If the property market cools, as predicted, then maybe things will change.

In short, the solution is in the hands of the consumers.

mitzipurr

Poollounger the discussion is not about how much people are valued at. It is about the amount that estate agents in Spain recieve in commision. The last time I sold a house in the UK I was charged 1% of the sale price. Furthermore it was not left to me to value the house the agent did that unlike here in Spain. A lot of a difference from the 4-9% on average you are charged here. I again rest my case.

The paper I sold my house through on the Costa del Sol is not circulated in this area so I am unable to use it to buy or sell property which is a great pity.

I am glad you are happy with your new house and wish you long life and happiness in it.

poollounger

I concur with Unexpat. It is market forces and the consumer that will change the high commissions charged by some agents, not disgruntled buyers and sellers on this forum. I could refer you to a Jerez agents website showing a property at Eu250,000 which my Chiclana agent showed me at 210,000, and which she subsequently sold. The Jerez agent is still displaying it on his website. One either grins and bears it or tries to circumvent the system. The last time I sold a boat in the UK I shopped around for the best deal I could get in terms of commission and storage while up for sale etc. I found this is negotiable depending on what price bracket one is selling in, but still lost on the boat after paying 8% plus VAT. The alternative would have been to place ads in magazines and handle the whole thing myself. As it was I had a buyer eager to view within a couple of hours of being posted on the web. They viewed the next day as I was off the following day to Thailand for a holiday. Had an offer the same day and finalised the deal on holiday via text message and e-mail. The brokers work was minimal in terms of time and outlay but invaluable in convenience. A good agent in any commodity is a godsend. Do keep us informed about your next transaction and how it was negotiated, with or without an agent..I am sure there a quite a few folks on here who would be interested.

poollounger

I concur with Unexpat. It is market forces and the consumer that will change the high commissions charged by some agents, not disgruntled buyers and sellers on this forum. I could refer you to a Jerez agents website showing a property at Eu250,000 which my Chiclana agent showed me at 210,000, and seriously considered but found something nicer, and which she subsequently sold. The Jerez agent is still displaying it on his website. One either grins and bears it or tries to circumvent the system. The last time I sold a boat in the UK I shopped around for the best deal I could get in terms of commission and storage while up for sale etc. I found this is negotiable depending on what price bracket one is selling in, but still lost on the boat after paying 8% plus VAT. The alternative would have been to place ads in magazines and handle the whole thing myself. As it was I had a buyer eager to view within a couple of hours of being posted on the web. They viewed the next day as I was off the following day to Thailand for a holiday. Had an offer the same day and finalised the deal on holiday via text message and e-mail. The brokers work was minimal in terms of time and outlay but invaluable in convenience. A good agent in any commodity is a godsend. Do keep us informed about your next transaction and how it was negotiated, with or without an agent..I am sure there a quite a few folks on here who would be interested.
What astonished me looking over the last year was how different prices targeted solely at the Spanish in areas not infiltrated by expats are. Walk into a local agent in a place like Moron de la Frontera or Utrer and see quite different tariffs from the websites showing properties in these areas targeting the expat market. However the staff in these agencies rarely speak English. Should they do so I am pretty certain they would start selling at higher prices!! We had our hearts set on a beautiful farmhouse with 30,000 sq meters of land in an idyllic spot at Eu130,000. There was only one member of staff at the Tecnocasa office that spoke a little English to match our Spanish. We hesitated to consider over the weekend and the local pharmacist snaffled it. Have never seen anything to match it.

poollounger

I think the answer lies in your comment about time....having spent a year and a fair bit of cash looking, I wondered if I could have dispensed with an agent. Not without the help of a fluent Spanish speaker. Spanish friends north of Huelva did try and help, even went scouting around the countryside looking at for sale signs. Then drove us around one weekend phoning possibles. When you have finally spoken to the vendors mother who tells you he is singing in church and will phone you back in two hours, and he then shows up four hours later, that is a huge chunk out of a 5 day trip,or maybe just a long weekend. As for telephoning ads from newspapers and free magazines?? Forget it!! Property buying is an exhausting process, and in a foreign language doubly so. There are people in London who will assess requirements, short list and act as intermediaries for overseas buyers who pay handsomely for the service and the time saving. I would hate to buy on an Urbanisation, but can understand those who do for the convenience it affords.

Carol&John

Three cheers for nurses around the world!
More NHS nurses are switching to agencies (demand outstripping supply), increasing their wages, but depleting the resources of the NHS and the patience and goodwill of their colleagues. (Another topic of discussion elsewhere...)
This thread's title, "Don't buy property in Spain or you will lose a lot of money...", makes me think "Money, isn't it meant for spending?" If you can afford to spend money on a property, but you can not afford the time to look for it yourself, then you pay the price, enjoy your new property, and quit crying over what might have been, if only, etc... Make the most of this opportunity!
"Shrouds don't have pockets" and "You can't take it (money) with you (when you're long gone...)" are phrases that spring to mind.
Spread the wealth (even estate agents, like nurses, have got to make (earn?) a living)!
Here endeth the rant...
Carol

poollounger

Sanity and a sense of optimism resumes !!! Thanks Carol

Unexpat

Although I would prefer to spread the money to my kids rather than an Estate Agent

Carol&John

Hi,
And what if your kids grow up to be, or are, estate agents?
What goes 'round, comes 'round. And, what is meant for you, won't go past you. De verdad?
(Basta ya! I'm running outa words of wisdom... (or verbal diarrhoea) )
Enjoy your Sunday,
Carol

ValenciaExpats

I hear on television that polaris have been refused planning permission for their development in Murcia that was to boost the population of a small town from a few thiousand to nearly 50,000.

Good job too. Most of these places stay empty most of the year.

From Benidorm down to Murcia is nothing but cranes. Many of the new properties are unsold, not to mention 10s of thousands of resales. A property is only worth what someone will pay for it. It's all very well quoting 16-18% increases per year. What selling time is that based on ? 5 years ? I've seen hundreds of places with for sale signs that have remained for a long time.

gazzpfc

How different is that to the UK I live on South Coast in Southsea 10 years ago areas of the place couldn't be given away let alone sold for big money in the last 5 years more millionaire builders and developers have been made than I care to remember building everywhere often paper full of stories of housing regs bent and fines being paid.
No property comes on the open market to develop as the builders and estate agents operate a cartel backed by sympathetic planning staff.
However in the last 12 months a lot of these new places have gone straight to letting market after a huge fall off in demand and a refusal to pay ludicrous prices or have stood empty.
Supply and demand controls all I suppose and its no different anywhere.

poollounger

I have friends who wanted to retire to North Norfolk. They went there one winter and found so many places like ghost towns as the holiday lets were boarded up for the winter. Driving throught Novo Sancti Petri in Chiclana three weeks ago was the same.. a few cars at the weekend but mostly deserted. Fine if you want to be a hermit and contemplate the sunset alone, but even those of us who do like solitude would prefer to find it somewhere other than in the midst of acres of soulless concrete. And a long drive for when one finds the need for company.