EsuriJohn

An article in El Pais today on a Government conference held with the Autonomous Regions includes the following paragraph:-

"The government’s model, which includes plans to revoke the health cards of immigrants who do not have their papers in order from September 1, are “based on the restriction of fundamental rights such as education and healthcare,” they wrote"

Whilst many of the expats living in Ayamonte will be aware of the moves by Government to reduce costs by introducing prescription charges they may not understand just how draconian the proposals will be.

The papers referred to will include at least the green Certificate of Residence, the Empadromiento Certificate, a valid S1 letter from DWS in Newcastle or proof of private medical insurance and some kind of proof of income sufficient not to be a burden on the State (estimated to be about 5200 euros per annum)

I believe the most serious impact here will be on retirees to our lovely town. A full UK State Pension will cover the income requirement but early retirees may find it awkward to actually have proof to hand if they are not registered in the Spanish tax system and can produce a certificate of tax paid.

The green paper should of course be held by all who have lived here for more than 90 days and if they have they will of course be registered on the Padron. The S1will have been sent from Newcastle when you first moved here.

Under EU law they will not be able to deport you but from September it looks as though they intend to make life uncomfortable if all your ducks are not in a row.

Our experience was that it took about 12 months to get the green paper and as long to get registered in the Spanish Tax system which we tried to do unaided but had to seek help in both cases. Anyone who needs medical support from the state system in Spain is going to find it harder after September if this is implemented on time.

Jon-Bxl

Hi John

I'm not sure about the law about deporting.

I read recently that the Belgian government (under Euro law) have deported 1800 people last year and expect to deport 2500 next year from people from EU countries (incl many Portuguese and Spanish). If they come to Belgium and after 3 months have lived off the social security system, and cant prove they have a proper income foundation... then they are on 'the list'.

Im not saying that this applies to your post, just picking up on one small point. Ive searched for the article (from a respected source) - but cant find it - I saw it about 2 months ago, but remember the numbers.

These are EU people coming over, non home owners who look for work and immediately 'sign on' - so not the same. But FYI there is no Euro law allowing totally free movement and unlimited use of public services... 3 months is the 'tipping point'.. FYI

Jon

MikeJ

Does this healthcare thing apply to pensioners too? I thought I'd read some where that the healthcare restrictions, proof of income requirement, non recourse to public funds applied to migrants of working age. I may be mistaken and they may be moving the goalposts again. Similar things are happening in France and Portugal (and maybe elsewhere) as the recession goes on across the EU.

Domino

isnt part of the problem the disjointed way in which this is being announced, or is it just the way it is being reported - for local consumption.?

but I will say that many on BE have expressed disgust at the way the UK is being plundered by migrants from EU countries as well as the rest of the world, for benefits and healthcare. I believe the door to Romania will be opened in 2013 under the EU's free movement rules.

all countries have problems with immigrants to varying degrees, but Spain has been hauled over the coals for not being kindly enough, when it isnt providing support to its own - who surely should come first.

AFAIK they aren't taking any action against pensioners, who in the main will have filled in all the forms and have presented their S1's - this ensures the annual £3750 or whatever is available to the Spanish Health Service, even if you don't have any need for it.

EsuriJohn

Yes it applies to all migrants however a full uk stete pension would satisfy the income requirement there seems to be a grey area about couples though where a married couple only receive one state pension then is this considered enough and if you were living of savings as early retirees what would be sufficient? If you are tax registered in Spain that makes it a lot easier to provide proof and also gets round the problems associated with the new payment systems for medical prescriptions since they are linking the pharmacy system to the tax return system. So a UK pensioner who is tax registered but pays no tax would pay a maximum of 8 euros a month for his/their prescriptions. If not registered they could be faced with the full cost and tortuous and lengthy system to reclaim the difference.

Jons point about deportation is disputed under EU law if you have been resident for five years apparently the only grounds for moving you out are dangers to the State. Of course if you are entering for the first time or have not been here for 5 years then you must have your papers in order and sufficient funds to support yourself. The catch 22 is that as part of the application for the green certificate you have to be able to demonstrate that you can support yourself and have proper medical arrangements so that you do not become a burden on the state.

jimenato

This issue is important to the whole of Spain. Would it not be better placed in the General Spain forum?

jimenato

The article particularly refers to the health card issue and as state health provision hasn't been available anyway for young retired people to date I'm not sure what has changed for them.

Fred James

Possibly but there already 200 posts on the subject in a thread on the main forum.

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=757881

lynnxa

yes - but isn't this the first we've heard that they will be cancelling cards??

EsuriJohn

The reason I reported info on the Ayamonte page is that there may be some who have not yet seen it and more importantly it is the first time I have seen a cut off date of 1st Septmber for health cards if you have not got all the correct paperwork. I am aware that for some time now it has been difficult to get a green sheet with no certainty of the supporting info needed however the cut of date seems to me to be most important for those people who have been using the health service at the margin of propriety they need to get sorted ASAP.

Fred James

In which case they only have themselves to blame for not bothering to read the main forum.

Fred James

I think you will find that when they talk about illegal immigrants they are referring mainly non EU citizens.

http://elpais.com/elpais/2012/08/30/...95_240075.html

The question of proof of income/health cover is a separate issue as far as EU nationals are concerned.

With regard to Andalucia they are not going to implement it anyway.

EsuriJohn

Ayamonte is a long way from anywhere else in Spain and Huelva perhaps not the most progressive Province with no airport and no motorway connection to 3 of its adjacent Provincial capitals so do not be surprised if people only follow the Ayamonte thread.

It is also why it is stuffed full of city types from Madrid, Cordoba, Granda and Sevilla. They just love and own many second homes here. That's why us Brits love it especially out of season.

lynnxa

that's interesting about Andalucía

I take your point about 'illegal immigrants' - and thanks for the link - but there a plenty of 'legal' immigrants who don't have their papers in order - many of whom are working on the black, unregistered in any way, shape or form

I spoke to someone today who has a tarjeta sanitaria who isn't & never has been resident here - he was given it on the back of an E111 years ago - & it's a 'permanent' one! Who pays for his treatment? (actually he spends that much time here that he probably should register )

if the govt isn't going to cancel the cards of EU citizens who aren't registered as resident, maybe it should

if people are resident with an income & healthcare, it's a simple enough thing to get registered, now that the extranjerías are getting used to the new rules

EsuriJohn

Not sure about Andalucia They refused to attend the recent conference on the implementation of this new rule but they are charging for prescriptions and they are delaying green certificates in Huelva the only office that does them in the Province.