Go Back  British Expats > Living & Moving Abroad > Europe > Spain
Reload this Page >

Discrimination for citizens in the EU

Discrimination for citizens in the EU

Old Feb 17th 2016, 11:30 am
  #1  
BE Enthusiast
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 982
Countryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Discrimination for citizens in the EU

I've been following the current re-negotiations with the EU. One of the things I've heard is that it it "unlawful" under present EU regulations to discriminate between citizens of different EU countries. For example, the media have reported that one of the problems in the re-negotiations in the withdrawal of benefits to UK migrants which, if imposed, would discriminate between them and current UK residents.
What confuses me is, if this is the case, why are migrants to the UK allowed to access the NHS but residents (under pensionable age) are not so permitted here in Spain. Doesn't this amount to a form of discrimination?
For example, this is on website called the Migrants' Rights Network:-

"The NHS is not a “public fund” as defined by the “recourse to public funds rules”. No law or regulation exists that restricts a patients’ right to access primary health care services because of their immigration status. Consider suing because any policy that links residency status with eligibility for primary care would be in breach of the Secretary of State’s fundamental duty to provide NHS services free of charge unless otherwise legislated"

I'm guessing no such duty exists under Spanish law, but surely if nothing else it amounts to a form of discrimination within the EU?
.
Countryboy1 is offline  
Old Feb 17th 2016, 1:19 pm
  #2  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,749
cricketman has a reputation beyond reputecricketman has a reputation beyond reputecricketman has a reputation beyond reputecricketman has a reputation beyond reputecricketman has a reputation beyond reputecricketman has a reputation beyond reputecricketman has a reputation beyond reputecricketman has a reputation beyond reputecricketman has a reputation beyond reputecricketman has a reputation beyond reputecricketman has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Discrimination for citizens in the EU

Originally Posted by Biffta
I've been following the current re-negotiations with the EU. One of the things I've heard is that it it "unlawful" under present EU regulations to discriminate between citizens of different EU countries. For example, the media have reported that one of the problems in the re-negotiations in the withdrawal of benefits to UK migrants which, if imposed, would discriminate between them and current UK residents.
What confuses me is, if this is the case, why are migrants to the UK allowed to access the NHS but residents (under pensionable age) are not so permitted here in Spain. Doesn't this amount to a form of discrimination?
For example, this is on website called the Migrants' Rights Network:-

"The NHS is not a “public fund” as defined by the “recourse to public funds rules”. No law or regulation exists that restricts a patients’ right to access primary health care services because of their immigration status. Consider suing because any policy that links residency status with eligibility for primary care would be in breach of the Secretary of State’s fundamental duty to provide NHS services free of charge unless otherwise legislated"

I'm guessing no such duty exists under Spanish law, but surely if nothing else it amounts to a form of discrimination within the EU?
.
You misunderstand the legislation

The law is that a country must treat EU nationals as if they were nationals of their own country

So a British person in Spain must have the same rights as a Spanish person in Spain

And they do. A Spanish person has no right to the health service in Spain unless they contribute to the system, or if they are judged too poor to contribute
cricketman is offline  
Old Feb 17th 2016, 1:27 pm
  #3  
BE Enthusiast
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 982
Countryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Discrimination for citizens in the EU

I understand the point about contributing to the system in order to qualify for access to the health system, but if that is the case how can a EU citizen, say from Spain, move to the UK and, without having made any contributions to the system in the UK, have a right to free access to the NHS?
Countryboy1 is offline  
Old Feb 17th 2016, 1:30 pm
  #4  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,148
Moses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Discrimination for citizens in the EU

Originally Posted by Biffta
I understand the point about contributing to the system in order to qualify for access to the health system, but if that is the case how can a EU citizen, say from Spain, move to the UK and, without having made any contributions to the system in the UK, have a right to free access to the NHS?
Because British citizens can too, even if they haven't worked a day in their life.
As cm mentioned:The law is that a country must treat EU nationals as if they were nationals of their own country
Moses2013 is offline  
Old Feb 17th 2016, 1:31 pm
  #5  
BE Enthusiast
 
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 377
CapnBilly has much to be proud ofCapnBilly has much to be proud ofCapnBilly has much to be proud ofCapnBilly has much to be proud ofCapnBilly has much to be proud ofCapnBilly has much to be proud ofCapnBilly has much to be proud ofCapnBilly has much to be proud ofCapnBilly has much to be proud ofCapnBilly has much to be proud ofCapnBilly has much to be proud of
Default Re: Discrimination for citizens in the EU

Originally Posted by Biffta
I understand the point about contributing to the system in order to qualify for access to the health system, but if that is the case how can a EU citizen, say from Spain, move to the UK and, without having made any contributions to the system in the UK, have a right to free access to the NHS?
Its because the UK NHS is a residence based system rather than a contribution system. So, once you are normally resident, then you qualify for free treatment under the NHS. That's why UK citizens who are normally resident overseas now have to pay, unless they are a state pensioner living in the EU.

Its the same issue with benefits.
CapnBilly is offline  
Old Feb 17th 2016, 1:38 pm
  #6  
BE Enthusiast
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 982
Countryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Discrimination for citizens in the EU

Yes, I suppose it's logical, but hardly a level playing field and blows a hole through any non-discrimination EU policy. There again, I can see the argument.
Grumble over I suppose.
Incidentally, do Spanish citizens who do not or have never worked still have to contribute to the Spanish system in order to access it for free?
If so, there's an argument that UK citizens in Spain who do not work and therefore do not contribute should have the same rights.
Countryboy1 is offline  
Old Feb 17th 2016, 1:41 pm
  #7  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,148
Moses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Discrimination for citizens in the EU

Originally Posted by Biffta
Yes, I suppose it's logical, but hardly a level playing field and blows a hole through any non-discrimination EU policy. There again, I can see the argument.Grumble over I suppose.Incidentally, do Spanish citizens who do not or have never worked still have to contribute to the Spanish system in order to access it for free?If so, there's an argument that UK citizens in Spain who do not work and therefore do not contribute should have the same rights.
Someone becoming resident in Spain who has paid contributions in any EU or EEA (European Economic Area) country may use those social security contributions to receive unemployment benefits in Spain.Request form E301 (a record of contributions made) from the local Employment office before moving to Spain. Unemployed after working less than one yearWorkers who have been employed for less than one year do not have the minimum requirement of contributions to receive unemployment benefits; however they may apply for an Unemployment Subsidy (Subsidio por Desempleo) providing they meet the following conditions:
  • They are legally unemployed
  • They register as a job seeker and sign an Activity Agreement (Compromiso de Actividad)
  • They have contributed at least three months of Social Security payments if they have family responsibilities, or six months of contributions if they do not
  • They do not have an income of more than 75 percent of the Minimum Professional Wage (El Salario Mínimo Interprofesional)
Moses2013 is offline  
Old Feb 17th 2016, 1:44 pm
  #8  
BE Enthusiast
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 982
Countryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Discrimination for citizens in the EU

I wasn't talking about unemployment benefit but access to the health system, but perhaps it's the same principle?
Countryboy1 is offline  
Old Feb 17th 2016, 1:44 pm
  #9  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,749
cricketman has a reputation beyond reputecricketman has a reputation beyond reputecricketman has a reputation beyond reputecricketman has a reputation beyond reputecricketman has a reputation beyond reputecricketman has a reputation beyond reputecricketman has a reputation beyond reputecricketman has a reputation beyond reputecricketman has a reputation beyond reputecricketman has a reputation beyond reputecricketman has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Discrimination for citizens in the EU

Originally Posted by Biffta
Incidentally, do Spanish citizens who do not or have never worked still have to contribute to the Spanish system in order to access it for free?
A Spanish person who has never contributed to the healthcare system, and has no close family who do, is not covered by the state healthcare system i.e. they would have to pay for treatment out of their own funds

The exception is if they can prove that they are destitute i.e. have zero income and zero assets, in which case they can claim destitution and be covered. This is what the African immigrants do

Like I said before, British people are subject to exactly the same laws in Spain that Spanish people are subject to i.e. it is completely non-descriminatry
cricketman is offline  
Old Feb 17th 2016, 1:46 pm
  #10  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,148
Moses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Discrimination for citizens in the EU

Originally Posted by Biffta
I wasn't talking about unemployment benefit but access to the health system, but perhaps it's the same principle?
My bad, but cm was quicker.
Moses2013 is offline  
Old Feb 17th 2016, 1:49 pm
  #11  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,148
Moses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond reputeMoses2013 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Discrimination for citizens in the EU

Originally Posted by Biffta
I wasn't talking about unemployment benefit but access to the health system, but perhaps it's the same principle?
Here it's basically all explained:
http://ec.europa.eu/employment_socia...20Spain_en.pdf
Moses2013 is offline  
Old Feb 17th 2016, 3:17 pm
  #12  
BE Enthusiast
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 982
Countryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Discrimination for citizens in the EU

As in chess - I concede! Thanks for the debate and my education!
Countryboy1 is offline  
Old Feb 17th 2016, 6:30 pm
  #13  
VFR
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Jun 2009
Location: Valencia area
Posts: 1,154
VFR has a reputation beyond reputeVFR has a reputation beyond reputeVFR has a reputation beyond reputeVFR has a reputation beyond reputeVFR has a reputation beyond reputeVFR has a reputation beyond reputeVFR has a reputation beyond reputeVFR has a reputation beyond reputeVFR has a reputation beyond reputeVFR has a reputation beyond reputeVFR has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Discrimination for citizens in the EU

Originally Posted by Moses2013
My bad, but cm was quicker.
Do you mean "My mistake" ?
VFR is offline  
Old Feb 17th 2016, 6:33 pm
  #14  
BE Enthusiast
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 982
Countryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this pointCountryboy1 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Discrimination for citizens in the EU

Yes, if every concession is by definition a mistake!
Countryboy1 is offline  
Old Feb 17th 2016, 6:48 pm
  #15  
Banned
 
Joined: Feb 2011
Location: Mallorca
Posts: 19,367
amideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond reputeamideislas has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Discrimination for citizens in the EU

Well, Merkel said today that Cameron's demands are completely justfied. Is that a "concession" (Mistake)?
amideislas is offline  

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.