Re: Demolition is proving difficult
 

Absolutely. :goodpost:

Re: Demolition is proving difficult
 

Hi

As has been said, the Chiclana Town plan has not officially been announced yet, and will take time to be approved into law. However, if the land the house stands on is approved for building, then some people (including me) will take a chance to buy a very cheap property in a lovely part of the world.

The cost of Urbanisation is unknown; it has been said the price will be capped; but on the other hand, there are those that say it is illegal to subsidise legalisation.

Chiclana is not for the faint-hearted; I sleep well of a night and think that it will all sort itself out many years (decades) after I am gone.

Davexf

Re: Demolition is proving difficult
 

I agree with that. As you know Dave, we are classed as alegal, which is neither legal nor illegal as we have an older house. My opinion is that it´s dreadful that people who bought new builds in good faith (both Spanish and ex-pat from any country) should be made to pay for the underhand tactics etc of builders, promoters, estate agents, notaries and lawyers.

xxx

Re: Demolition is proving difficult
 

To misquote Kipling, "You're a braver man than I am, Gunga Din" Cheap it maybe, and if you can sleep well at night, you're on a winner. Problem that I can see is a big percentage of Brits find out Spain is not for them, sometimes it takes years, but if you then decide to up sticks and sell, you can't! If it's that cheap that you can write it off, fine, but I'd guess anyone that buys a cheap illegal build in the first place, is buying it because that's what they can afford, ie can't afford to simply walk away. The fact that the vendor has told the OP that it can be legalised would appear to be telling porkies, not a great start. Anyway, has the OP been frightened off, I don't see any further posts from them.

Re: Demolition is proving difficult
 

Hi

And that is why I don't think it will be sorted for a long time. The "builders, promoters, estate agents, notaries and lawyers" simply don't have sufficient money to legalise all the illegal properties.

So who pays? I honestly believe that it is the owners who will eventually be left holding the baby

Davexf

Re: Demolition is proving difficult
 

Why do they need the money if it´s down to the owners?

Re: Demolition is proving difficult
 

I wish all in Chiclana all the best in their endeavours
BUT....(isn't there always one of those)
Other town halls have tried rewriting their PGOU to include areas already containing illegal properties and had them refused by the Andalucian Junta.
The grounds are that
a) the land wasn't zoned for urbanisation when the properties were built
b) local efforts of zoning for urbanisation will break the law of the land with regard to national Land Law (Ley de Suelo) which takes precedence over regional laws and any regional legislation must reflect any changes made to it.
c) properties built with the expectancy of waiting 4/10 years and getting a walk thru with permissions will not be able to be made legal
d) as the Environmental people continually point out, many illegal properties have no or poor quality sewerage facilities and rely on water courses and wells that are filled from water draining through the land, contaminated by such sewerage.
e) even certificates of habitation issued by Town Halls for properties that are built on Agrario rather than Urbano land are not worth the paper they are printed on.

If you have bought a property that is illegal there is no protection for you or your home - it remains illegal, you should have carried out the proper due diligence and ensured the legal status before handing over a penny.
At the least, if in any doubt, do a google search for Illegal properties in the area you are considering and follow your instincts.

you wouldn't spend quarter of a million pounds on a property in the UK without ensuring every thing is kosher - so why go to a foreign country and do it there without worrying about it.
in fact you wouldn't spend 10k on a car without ensuring it is legal, so what happens when you arrive in the sun, put on a sombrero and start to lose your brains


`

Re: Demolition is proving difficult
 

Hi

Well actually, Yes it was. And that is the crux of the problem. The council published a PGOU and before you could say "Jack Robinson", there were illegal houses built on every piece of land that was zoned for housing.

The houses were built without permission because the fines for doing so were less than the cost of getting permission - and it would take too long to do so.

To demolish the 300,000 illegal houses in Andalucía would be unthinkable. Spain would loose all credence simply thinking it. And the EU wouldn't let it happen.

The solution will be a long time coming - but there will be a solution.

Davexf

Re: Demolition is proving difficult
 

but if the PGOU defines the land as "urbano" but that hasn't been actioned so the land is still "agrario" then there is a snowballs chance in hell of it being changed
use the catastral facility on Goolzoom, check the status of properties - whilst it "may" be out of date or not updated when you find complete hamlets of new build sitting there on agrario you will see the size of the problem

Albox has over 12,500 illegals in the Almanzora Valley, the latest draft PGOU is proposing the urbanisation of land in areas without any houses or just extending existing urbano segments. This will not resolve the problem.
for someone of say 60 buying a retirement home, even if they live to 80 or 85 they are unlikely to see the property legalised, and if so it will cost them more although they have already paid for all documentation. And paid IBI/Basura all that time
what a situation to leave to the kids when you die
:thumbdown:

Re: Demolition is proving difficult
 

Thanks Lyn

Re: Demolition is proving difficult
 

So you think if we bought an illegal property here in Spain it is because we lost our brains.

Our biggest mistake was to trust those we should have been able to trust e.g. lawyers, estate agents, bank mangers and their surveyors.

No I wouldn´t expect to buy an illegal property in the U.K. as I would have done exactly what I did in Spain trust the lawyer etc. etc.

Buyers who buy in good faith are not the problem here it is the corrupt people that we dealt with, they are the problem not us.

Our house will eventually be demolished as it is built on protected land (ley de costas) we relied on the lawyer to make sure everything was above board just as we would have done in the U.K.

We bought two houses during our time in the U.K. it never ocurred to us that they would be illegal as we had lawyers dealing with all the paperwork just as we did here in Spain.

Our mistake was that we trusted the professionals who we should have been able to trust to their job correctly.

Re: Demolition is proving difficult
 

The bottom line seems to be that Spain is culturally corrupt so until Spain's courts start taking corruption seriously (maybe next century:() it makes a lot more sense to let your UK home and rent one in Spain.

Re: Demolition is proving difficult
 

Well that rules Spain out from the start :D

Re: Demolition is proving difficult
 

As I said before, you will always have the sabelotodos here accusing people like yourself of leaving their brains on the aircraft etc. Unfortunately, all too many have, like yourself, ended up being the victims of corrupt, inefficient Spanish lawyers, estate agents et al. You went down the correct legal route, and as you say, your only mistake was to believe that you could trust these people. Fatal mistake, easy to say with hindsight, we all know that now. At times it's hard to believe how a supposedly modern EU country can be so backward in so many ways and be so corrupt. And despite a few court cases, I can't really see things getting better anytime soon, corruption is part of being Spanish. I wish you luck.

Re: Demolition is proving difficult
 

I sold my villa recently.
I was put in touch with the buyer after the event and discovered that he had actually paid €10k more than I had been told it had been sold for and that the estate agent had tried to sell the car (which was included in the price) as a separate deal. Originally I had been told that he had offered €20k under the asking price, whereas he had always offered the asking price.

It's not my problem now, as I am out of Spain, but I feel sorry for the buyer who paid €10k in cash at the time of completion. Luckily, I hadn't paid the estate agent his massive fee, so draw your own conclusions.

Buying or selling a property in Spain can be a nightmare. One of the most important pieces of advice I can give is speak directly to the buyer / seller all the time. Then you know exactly what the score is, and each of you would be fully aware of any scams. Trust no one, don't use a solicitor recommended by the seller / estate agent (as my buyer did!) and NEVER get involved in cash payments in the corridor! Do your own checks with the town hall and maybe even use a gestor to do some independent checking for you