Re: deemed resident based on electricity useage
 

Correct.

In reality this affects only higher rate UK taxpayers as the higher Spanish basic rate tax on rentals (now 24.75%), and fewer deductibles means a basic rate taxpayer would never owe more in the UK.

To be honest, in our apartment block I am the only one who pays Spanish tax and none of the others has ever been bothered by Hacienda, so I wonder if I'm just a mug and should never have bothered in the first place.

Re: deemed resident based on electricity useage
 

Sounds like scaremongering and very doubtful as you could the put electricity consumption down to heating to stop interior deterioration /fridge /freezer / security system, the cleaner who visits every month etc etc , its like the UK reg cars being impounded rumor , I still see loads of them around.

Re: deemed resident based on electricity useage
 

You keep saying this but why is it quarterly?

Annual tax forms have to be done in June for residents and December for non-residents.

Re: deemed resident based on electricity useage
 

It's quarterly if you are non resident and you have actual income from letting the property.

The annual declaration in December is for the non resident imputed income tax.

Re: deemed resident based on electricity useage
 

Yes annual tax returns are done in June for on residents. And I am talking about non residents. Not residents.

If you have rental income from your (non resident) apartment you complete a tax return at the end of every calendar quarter, to be submitted by the (I think ) the 20th of the following month.

Most non residents are under the mistaken impression that the annual return is the only one required. This is the case if you do not rent out your property.

If you rent it out then you have to fill in a quarterly form 210 and pay tax on the income less allowable deductions at 24.75%

Simples:confused:

Re: deemed resident based on electricity useage
 

On the subject of income tax and double taxation agreements - if someone has a property in uk, (ignoring annual tax exemptions based on tax code etc), they deduct certain costs (such as mortgage interest, repairs, gas safety certificates etc) from rental before arriving at a net income subject to tax. Presumably, when filling in a Spanish tax return (for residents), a taxable net income is also calculated and, if the resulting tax is higher than that paid in the UK, a balance of tax is paid to the Spanish tax authorities. My question is, (after all this preamble), are the same deductions from rental income allowed on the Spanish tax return when calculating net profit from the rental of the uk property ?

Re: deemed resident based on electricity useage
 

Last time i looked (about a year ago) the answer was DEFINITELY not. There are fewer allowable deductions. In fact there are fewer allowable deductions if you are non resident than if you are tax resident. However, try as I might I can't find the precise answer in any of my documentation.

Maybe the Spanish tax authorities now allow a more generous set of deductions.

Re: deemed resident based on electricity useage
 

I think that has now changed as it discriminated against non residents.

However, you don't get the flat 50% allowance that residents get, just the normal allowable expenses.

Re: deemed resident based on electricity useage
 

Sorry, i probably confused matters a bit with my question (which i admit was a bit wooley). I was looking from the point of a spanish resident with a rental property in the uk who pays uk tax on the rental income (after certain allowable deductions), who then has to fill in a tax return in Spain. Is it likely that there will still be Spanish tax to pay (even allowing for the double taxation agreement) i.e. because spain doesnt allow as many cost deductions as they do in the UK

Re: deemed resident based on electricity useage
 

Fred you seem to be of the view that I'm condoning people who break the law saying they are non resident when living full time in Spain? I do not. The point I was making is as you say depending on the useage it may raise suspicion and yes rightly so it would be for you to prove otherwise. For the genuine person that to be honest would not create any difficulty. On the other hand you may if well off enough visit for say 2 long weekends every month and therfore have electric usage every month, that could be looked at in isolation like you are there permanent.As you say heavy usage may cause suspicion. However my view would be that the authorities would only start looking at such evidence following other indicators I.e. someone approaching them or the town hall saying you were there permanent or letting the property on a routine/regular basis. I can,t see the authorities or police in any country having the resources to monitor every non residents electricity use just on the off chance you are fiddling.
As a non resident I can stay 183 days legally I pay my non resident tax and due to circumstances at the moment and the next year or so IT will be 183 days Spain remainder uK or elsewhere. If someone is fiddling and caught out then for me they only have themselves to blame and must accept the consequences of their actions.

Re: deemed resident based on electricity useage
 

If they wanted to do this they would no doubt do it by electronically feeding electricity and other info into some data base and then Data Mining against set criteria to produce a "look at in detail" list of addresses. It is frightening what some of these programmes are capable of and the security people are improving them all the time. It does not take long for the private sector to catch up and in some cases overtake. The USA DoD seem to be in front at the moment but then they pay a lot for development costs.

Re: deemed resident based on electricity useage
 

Yes I think you are right should the need arise but do you realy belive they are monitoring every non residents elctricity usage.? I don,t

Re: deemed resident based on electricity useage
 

By the way I am aware of what technology is available, however not all that is on the CSI telly program is real belive me. It is fantasy land to belive because I am non resident tney are interested in my every move, without some suspicion being raised let alone the cost of such actions without having some suspicion you are up to no good.

Re: deemed resident based on electricity useage
 

Have another glass of tinto, amigo:blink:

Re: deemed resident based on electricity useage
 

Cheers