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Declaring Premium Bond Winnings

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Old Aug 1st 2024 | 5:21 am
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Default Re: Declaring Premium Bond Winnings

Originally Posted by Barriej
Premium bonds dont exist here. They are not actually 'bonds' but are not savings either.
In fact they are in effect a continuous lottery and we should be happy that the Spanish system does not recognise them as this or there would be a flat 40% tax on any winnings...

It was explained to me by the accountant who does our returns, he is fully Spanish but spent time in the Uk as an accountant and then when he returned home he setup a business to assist foreigners. The staff is made up of tax specialists from six different European countries.

Anyhow. The 'winnings' from premium bonds are a form of interest as the payments are paid out from the interest gained by the total pot of money. Therefore they are taxed as interest not earnings and cannot be.
When you cash them in you are just removing savings from an account and dont pay tax on this.

You would only file a 720 if you had 50k and yes you would amend this but only if it changed by I think 20k one way or the other.
Yes thats my understanding but the tax situation is disputed from what Fred has said. As we both said you have already declared and paid tax on any winnings so its just your money you are spending should you cash them in.
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Old Aug 1st 2024 | 5:22 am
  #17  
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Default Re: Declaring Premium Bond Winnings

So how come Blevins Franks, a well-established international group of tax experts say otherwise?
 
Old Aug 1st 2024 | 5:29 am
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Default Re: Declaring Premium Bond Winnings

Originally Posted by Fred James
So how come Blevins Franks, a well-established international group of tax experts say otherwise?
Is your comment in relation to the tax bracket or cashing premium bonds in Fred? I get the point re tax bracket being general income.
 
Old Aug 1st 2024 | 6:17 am
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Default Re: Declaring Premium Bond Winnings

It relates to which income category a win goes into.

Most posters say it's savings income. BF say it is general income. I haven't a clue (or any bonds) but I wonder why the forum "experts" disagree with a known expert source. I actually received a newsletter from BF today that specifically mentioned the taxation of premium bonds.

Last edited by Fred James; Aug 1st 2024 at 6:20 am.
 
Old Aug 1st 2024 | 6:26 am
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Default Re: Declaring Premium Bond Winnings

Originally Posted by Fred James
It relates to which income category a win goes into.

Most posters say it's savings income. BF say it is general income. I haven't a clue (or any bonds) but I wonder why the forum "experts" disagree with a known expert source. I actually received a newsletter from BF today that specifically mentioned the taxation of premium bonds.
cheers Fred i saw read and commented on your previous comment. I mentioned that i thought.but wasnt certain that it went in savings bracket . Having read the link you posted i was incorrect. I dont do my own tax return a gestor does it for me hence i didnt know. Sorry.for any confusion from myself.
 
Old Aug 1st 2024 | 7:53 am
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Default Re: Declaring Premium Bond Winnings

Originally Posted by Fred James
It relates to which income category a win goes into.

Most posters say it's savings income. BF say it is general income. I haven't a clue (or any bonds) but I wonder why the forum "experts" disagree with a known expert source. I actually received a newsletter from BF today that specifically mentioned the taxation of premium bonds.
So my accountant must be wrong and I will inform him in the strongest terms possible.
I have to give them a breakdown of all my income sources every year and the premium bond winnings have always gone in the interest from investments and savings.
Because its not an INCOME. Incomes are in my view money you are paid, like a pension, a job, selling your body on the street corner ETC...
Technically then my pension is derived from the gains it has made since investing the original sum which is a form of interest, so should that be put in the savings and investment box?????????

I have no knowledge as to the credibility of BF but they strike me as a firm who are used for tax avoidance by wealthy people, they wont even deal with you unless you have a certain level of wealth. How very elitist... If not then I am happy to be corrected.

But as they say on dragons den. Im out...

I have some records to put on cassette cause they are warping in this heat and that is far more interesting than this....
 
Old Aug 1st 2024 | 8:50 am
  #22  
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Default Re: Declaring Premium Bond Winnings

I have lost count of the times I have heard stories about Spanish "accountants" having no idea about UK financial products and UK taxes. I have even heard of a tax official at the tax office categorically state that the only UK government pensions that are exempt are police pensions. Tell that to civil servants and the military - I'm sure they will be surprised.

Ultimately it is a self-declaration system and you can declare whatever figures in any box you choose. It will almost certainly get accepted (any obvious errors are thrown up when you press the "submit" button.) You have to hope you never get a letter from the tax office asking you to justify your figures. That doesn't usually happen until you are getting close to the 4-year statute of limitations.

You, not your accountant/lawyer/ gestor/friend in the bar are responsible, so it is really important to get it right first time.

With something as obscure as a major Premium Bond win, it's pretty unlikely Hacienda will know about it unless you transfer the money from your UK account into Spain. I doubt that PB wins are included in the financial data-sharing arrangement between HMRC and Hacienda - but who knows?
 
Old Aug 1st 2024 | 6:25 pm
  #23  
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Default Re: Declaring Premium Bond Winnings

I have been dealing with the Spanish tax system as a Brit for years and my ex wife has spent 8 years working for various Spanish firms doing tax returns for Brits and Scandavians. The process is nothing like as simple as the British system and I know no Spanish person who does their own declaration ( which should be a warning). Similarly my British work colleagues regard me as wasting money paying a gestor as they simply use the government online calculator and blindly fill out the fields with no understanding of the Spanish. Sure you can do it and simple declaration should remain practically the same year on year. The problem is when you are checked- if you think that you are going to do all that in English you will be mistaken. You need to be able to accurately produce the required documents and proof in a translated form and you need a Spanish speaker familiar with the system. Some companies ( Abaco Torrevieja) provide a promise to accept any errors in your declaration if you have been transparent about everything but many won't. I have received the black envelope once and it can be quite distressing - you will need professional help. That said the Hacienda are quite reasonable and are more concerned about deliberate avoidance of tax than paying tax but placing things in wrong boxes.
 
Old Aug 2nd 2024 | 2:38 am
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Default Re: Declaring Premium Bond Winnings

I guess the main thing is income has been declared to hacienda and not been treated as tax free which it is in the UK. Its not really surprising that there are differing views as far as Spain is concerned re premium bonds. It would seem some gestors treat winnings as savings/ investment interest others as a lottery win. Hard to specifically define as Spain does not have similar it has savings, bonds and lottery wins. Some say premium bonds are not in fact bonds yet they are called bonds, NSI itself describe them as an investment product. Although income is by the means of a prize draw it is based on a percentage figure unlike a straight forward lottery. So as i say main thing is the income is declared which gestor is right re correct box? Blevin Franks has the good reputation but i guess that the box they say is correct is still down to their interpretation. Maybe it would be better if the hacienda stipulated itself specifically what box it should be declared in? All i know is when i submit my information to my gestor i give them details of income from my pensions what has been taxed in uk what hasn't and other income from investments savings to be taxed in Spain. On the notes i have handed the gestor i have always put premium bonds under the savings/investment bracket , whether they put them in general income or savings I honestly dont know.

Last edited by bobd22; Aug 2nd 2024 at 2:41 am.
 

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