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Old Jan 26th 2014 | 12:27 am
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Default Declaring assets/income

Hi all. I live in the USA and have been on expats for a while (planning on moving back someday). I have a UK friend here who owns a Brit shop and wants to sell up and move to Spain, but has heard horror stories about having to declare all income and assets in other countries. Any info I can point her to?
 
Old Jan 26th 2014 | 1:12 am
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Default Re: Declaring assets/income

Tell your friend to google" reporting assets outside Spain" and she will be over whelmed.
Try also sites such as Blevins Franks, UK in Spain. Anglo info, plus other ex pat forums eg Eye on Spain Expat forum Spain.
To the experts:
Now it's that time of year again when dire warnings appear in the press about the assets report, I was wondering-if people who didn't submit this form last year, when they should have done, do so this year, will they be penalised, or will the Hacienda turn a blind eye, grateful to get a response, however late?
 
Old Jan 26th 2014 | 1:47 am
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Default Re: Declaring assets/income

Storm in a tea cup I heard that the number of models 720s submitted was very low
 
Old Jan 26th 2014 | 1:53 am
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Default Re: Declaring assets/income

Wonder why that was? perhaps they (Hacienda) could make a random example of someone with a fine of 10,000 - then watch the stampede!
 
Old Jan 26th 2014 | 2:12 am
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Default Re: Declaring assets/income

So do you get taxed on income in the UK and taxed again by the Spanish authorities on the same monies declared? in effect taxed twice on the same cash
 
Old Jan 26th 2014 | 2:14 am
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Default Re: Declaring assets/income

Originally Posted by Neptuno
Wonder why that was? perhaps they (Hacienda) could make a random example of someone with a fine of 10,000 - then watch the stampede!
I read somewhere that they did fine someone. I also read that many, many people completed them but not many Spanish
 
Old Jan 26th 2014 | 4:07 am
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Default Re: Declaring assets/income

Originally Posted by tebo53
So do you get taxed on income in the UK and taxed again by the Spanish authorities on the same monies declared? in effect taxed twice on the same cash
Form 720 is for residents in Spain who are taxable on world income in Spain (with certain exemptions) so they would not be taxed in UK on that income.
 
Old Jan 26th 2014 | 6:17 am
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Default Re: Declaring assets/income

Originally Posted by Neptuno
Tell your friend to google" reporting assets outside Spain" and she will be over whelmed.
Try also sites such as Blevins Franks, UK in Spain. Anglo info, plus other ex pat forums eg Eye on Spain Expat forum Spain.
To the experts:
Now it's that time of year again when dire warnings appear in the press about the assets report, I was wondering-if people who didn't submit this form last year, when they should have done, do so this year, will they be penalised, or will the Hacienda turn a blind eye, grateful to get a response, however late?
Many thanks. I wish she would just join and ask her own questions <sigh> but will cut and paste this in a message to her. It doesn't look to me to be an inviting situation to be in - not really sure whether to encourage this or not Actually, trying to get her to go back to the UK with me in any case, so may work in my favour
 
Old Jan 26th 2014 | 7:31 am
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Default Re: Declaring assets/income

I've just been looking at other websites about the form 720 and one legal site says "This is NOT a new tax but only a DECLARATION"

Am I correct in thinking it's basically to gather information on peoples finances to make sure they are paying correct taxes.

Is it simple as that or am I thinking totally wrong?

So if I am a resident living off UK pensions (Tax paid in UK) and as long as I declare what the values are, I'm unlikely to have to pay any tax on that in Spain.
 
Old Jan 26th 2014 | 7:37 am
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Default Re: Declaring assets/income

Not necessarily. The only UK pensions taxed by the UK "government" are those which are paid to retired civil servants, police, and the like. The state pension is taxable in Spain for residents here but exempt in UK. Your assessment is correct in that the declarations simply state the assets held, not the income therefrom. Hacienda will naturally compare the tax declaration with the assets listed on the 720, but it is not true that all assets produce an income.

Last edited by marcbernard; Jan 26th 2014 at 7:41 am. Reason: additional phrases.
 
Old Jan 26th 2014 | 8:16 am
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Default Re: Declaring assets/income

Originally Posted by tebo53
I've just been looking at other websites about the form 720 and one legal site says "This is NOT a new tax but only a DECLARATION"

Am I correct in thinking it's basically to gather information on peoples finances to make sure they are paying correct taxes.

Is it simple as that or am I thinking totally wrong?

So if I am a resident living off UK pensions (Tax paid in UK) and as long as I declare what the values are, I'm unlikely to have to pay any tax on that in Spain.
Surely you know that all pensions , and other income from savings, investments etc should be declared in Spain.however, government pensions are not taxed in Spain, although the tax office needs to know about them. If your income is below the tax threshold, obviously you won't pay tax on them, but make a nil declaration.
 
Old Jan 26th 2014 | 8:13 pm
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Default Re: Declaring assets/income

Slightly different, but comes under the heading Declaring assets/income, I was delighted to read the following of a local guy about not declaring assets/income. Seems he had a mortgage free place near Marbella but returned to live in UK and claim benefits.
Man who falsely claimed benefits must sell Spanish home or face prison
A man has been ordered to sell his 100,000 euro home in the south of Spain after being caught falsely claiming benefits.
He warned he would receive an 18 month prison sentence if he did not repay £25,960 as well as £1,200 in prosecution costs and a £100 government surcharge within six months.
 
Old Jan 26th 2014 | 8:50 pm
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Default Re: Declaring assets/income

Originally Posted by marcbernard
Not necessarily. The only UK pensions taxed by the UK "government" are those which are paid to retired civil servants, police, and the like. The state pension is taxable in Spain for residents here but exempt in UK. Your assessment is correct in that the declarations simply state the assets held, not the income therefrom. Hacienda will naturally compare the tax declaration with the assets listed on the 720, but it is not true that all assets produce an income.
I am not too sure that is the case from a UK standpoint. Yes State Pension is paid gross and civil servant pensions police etc taxed at source. However if State Pension + private pension exceeds the tax free allowance it is taxable.

Or have I got this wrong?
 
Old Jan 26th 2014 | 9:11 pm
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Default Re: Declaring assets/income

The first thing to remember is that a RESIDENT of Spain in receipt of two (or more) pensions one of which is as a result of having worked in the Civil Service, Police or similar organisation, has until recently (see below) benefited from two seperate countries' tax allowances. The CS etc pension would be taxable in UK (and tax would be due if the UK personal allowance(s) are all used up). The State and other (private) pensions would not be taxable in UK provided of course that the required registration as a Spanish citizen had been made. These items, along with other world income, would be taxable in Spain unless the threshold had not been exceeded.
An exception to the above would be if income arose from property within UK, and this would be subject to UK tax, and also in Spain; but the machinations of a Double Taxation agreement would come into play so that you would only pay tax on this income at the higher of the two regimes.
Another quirk has now apeared in that whilst the existence of a CS etc pension was ignored totally in Spain up to (probably) 2013, a revised agreement, which has I understand yet to be implemented, allows for the UK element to be taken into account in calculating the rate of Spanish tax on world wide income. However there can still be no tax deducted by Spain on the UKCS etc pension. Thus, on my understanding, if your total world income minus the CS etc pension does not of itself give rise to Spanish Tax liability, none would be due.
 
Old Jan 26th 2014 | 9:20 pm
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Default Re: Declaring assets/income

Thanks I now see the machinations. State Pension + private pension would not be taxable in the UK if one had declared residency in Spain.

Same system in France in that having been tax resident in France for years State Pension + Private Pension is paid gross in the UK then French tax cuts in. However income on Building Society is taken at 20% ? in UK and then one chases for HMRC for a refund. Our rental income also in the UK is paid gross.

Is the tax year in Spain please Jan - December? So if one became resident in say July 2014 would the revenue stream be split between countries or would the fiscal residency test cut in and then election to pay taxes comes into being?
 


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