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I think you are way behind the times.
The Chinese have been getting into the quality hi-tec market for quite a while now.

For instance the have bought out and taken over the highly rated Swedish Motor Industry.
They now own both Saab and Volvo and have already begun the process of switching production to China.

I would never under estimate them and IMHO it's simply a matter of time before they take over the West, lock stock and barrel.

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They have been doing it for thousands of years, living in dire poverty and many of them starving. Read a bit about life in the spanish campo until about 30 yrs ago. How would the kids "marry well", do you mean "well" as in someone whose family has 12 cows instead of your ten:rofl:

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Well I'd be a little more ambitious than that :rofl:

There is an inbetween state, based on sustainability and knowledge. Or at least I hope there is!

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this wins the prize for the most ludicrous post.............yes it often happens that "landed gentry" marry well, but we are talking about a small holding scraping by feeding a gang with and investment of 100k, yourfiguers.

Also the "children marrying well", is as out dated as your "good life" logic.
Basically children will become a "commodity" to be sold to an older affluent partner to secure a comfortable life.

Most people who had that type of life in the past married for convenience, or for the good of the family coffers.


I really think that you are living in cloud cookoo land.

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Way behing the times

All the tat comes from China, but so does the Hi-tech. Simply everything except high quality clothing and cars comes from there

Look at your iPhone, computer or digital camera. Almost all are made in China

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I can see that and so can you, are we bonkers?:rofl:

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Man with 10 acres, wants to meet woman with tractor.:rofl:

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Why dont you do it then?

You have a flat in London that you can sell, buy the land, get your new gadgets, look for livestock and plant the spuds and other staples that you can eat, a cow for milk, and start a breeding programme for future labourers.

And Bobs your uncle, do it for your kids, you believe it is the future, give yourself a head start over those who will be forced into it, as you say.

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Please send photo of tractor.




A John Deere would definitely be worth a few brownie points. :thumbsup:

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Yes I am seriously thinking about it. The thing is I'm greedy. I see something suitable and talk myself into it, then I see a lovely Casona de Indianos that needs a bit of work with a load of land - and I think maybe I'll hold off for a few more years so I can get that one :rofl:

Then I can hire some staff who can sleep in the outbuildings and they can do all the work in return for food and lodgings ;)

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I shall not sell my soul to nor become a slave to the Chinese for electrical equipment or a car. I never buy anything that is labeled made in China, although I have no doubt there is stuff in my house that has been made there and re-labeled after it has landed in Europe.

With your model I expect that they will have to eat us Westerners because as we will not have any money what other use will there be for us?

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My word there is xenophobia for you :rofl:

However, I bet at least 80% of the stuff in your house was actually made in China

What countries do you not mind buying from? Is Japan OK but Indonesia out for example?

I do have a general rule that I wont buy clothes from China because they fall apart. Although I do make exceptions because sometimes I cant justify the price difference

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Wrong as usual...........:rolleyes:

Maybe in yours but not in mine.

I cannot think of a single thing that I own that has been made in China.

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Ever been to Ikea? They make most their stuff in China nowadays
Anything made by Apple. All from China
Where do you buy your clothes? All highstreet shops and supermarkets make their clothes in China

Obviously I'll never be able to prove it, but I would bet a lot of money that you have a lot of things made in China

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I like to think that but when you look it's surprising how much stuff is made in China.
Mobile 'phone, Computer and or batteries, TV,DVD player etc.
And that's without clothes, trainers. Designed in the Uk manufactured in China.
Not trainers in my case as I don't wear them!

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OH & son might have something to say about it, but for 10 acres OF FLAT LAND I'd consider finding myself a tractor....:lol:


Possibly regrettable, but regrettably very likely true:nod:

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Just a hypothetical, chaps, but who here knows the provenance of every item in their possession/in their house,home,car etc? I for one don't. I'm betting that though I know a lot are of Chinese production, and some I know are from other source producers: Argentina, Spain, UK (admittedly not many:() however there are probably loads I would have barely glanced at when making the purchase. Value for money, price per kg, contents, style, suitability, size, etc, yes. But made where? Not guaranteed every single time. Or am I alone in this?

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That could be the least of your worries.

Come the day you could find yourself to be the equivalent of a sweat shop slave or a paddy field worker desperate for a bowl of rice. :eek:

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If Cmans predictions come true,that we all live like rural Spanish from a generation or two ago, then men will have to change their mindset when looking for a suitable partner/wife.

I am sure a strong right arm for churning the butter will be a sought after asset.:rofl:

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:rofl::thumbup::thumbup:

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Come the day you could find yourself to be the equivalent of a sweat shop slave or a paddy field worker desperate for a bowl of rice.

OK, I'm 40 now and will be maybe 45 by then. :unsure: :(

7 billions now... and growing non stop: more people being born and people dying older. That is also a huge problem, now and even more in the near future. Seeing this we'd rather start working on a virus with maybe a 75% death efficiency... and throw it everywhere.

Wait... we will definitely need people who actually know how to make useful things... I don't know... engineers, doctors, someone who can keep the nuclear stations without going off... we can get rid of all the rest and leave them to the chance of being one of the 25% surviving; at the end of the day most people are disposable, that's were we are going. Let's make sure that we also make some antidotes and prepare some lists for the chosen ones we have to keep... But all religions preachers and representatives, bankers, billionaires, owners of sweat shops and factories, royal families, etc, etc... do not need to apply! :rofl:

Of course I might not be there to see the result, but at least then we would have more land to farm and free houses, just make sure we keep the cities small and close to farming lands. Jobs for everybody, we can start swapping things, no more euro/pound issues, there won't be any value in notes! And best of all, we won't have any traders as there won't be any financial instruments. People from those poor parts of the world which are now overpopulated will have statistically more survivors who (as we made sure that the bankers and people at the top, who have been deciding about our lives for generations, are dead), they will at last be welcome to Western countries, and all races, cultures, languages and religions will disappear and rearrange in a new single one, because ALL the survivors would been the chosen ones. Simple, basic life, with only the technicians to fear as masters of the power of electricity. Of course this will have to be repited in maybe 500 years or so...

Is that the only way???

Because we cannot go on like this for much longer.... we cannot even expect a rice bowl as something secured, we'll end up starving. :unsure:

TBH, I did think at first that the avian flu was manufacturated precisely for this... call me mad, but I do seriously think that some people up there -and I don't mean "there"- are getting quite worried about the 7 million number and can do something about it... :sneaky:

In the meanwhile I'll start trying to get that tractor, just in case... this is the future! :rofl:

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If we really have to get back to basics and live off the land the first thing to cross of the list will be that fuel guzzling tractor, increasingly expensive to feed, whilst using up dwindling world resources.

It's got to be back to the old burro, very fuel efficient, in fact turning its mostly free natural supply of fuel into a useful bi-product.

More ppl.back to living off the land and working the land, more jobs to go round, just as nature intended.

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It may seem like a nice way of living, but there are people who have lived that life, and now find themselves in the burro dung themselves, they are now old and have no pension, while they were working the land they were cash poor, and now survive on nothing, not a dignified way to end life.

So how would these small holders be provided for in the old age, by that I mean a pension, which is what a lot of people have on this forum.

A pension that would give them a bit of dignity, not even asking for luxury here, but enough so that they dont have to burn donkey shit to keep warm or cook, and a bit of independance when they are too old or too ill to work?

A lot talk the talk but when push comes to shove would they walk the walk and live that way themselves?

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Well I think you would realize that my comment was very much tongue in cheek.
The harsh reality is no doubt a totally different kettle of fish and I doubt that anyone not already familiar with such a lifestyle would have even the foggiest idea how to cope.

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It is perfectly possible to have a home full of stuff and know their origins.

However it involves using the words, custom-made, tailor made, hand-made, antique, Miele etc when describing them.

The only things I dont have provenance for in my house(s) are a few batteries, my 2 Mac computers which are old which states on the internet that parts were from USA and computer assembled in Taiwan. There will probably be a few other insignificant items but that is all.

It pays to buy quality.

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Totally agree with you. Can I ask you if you have much stuff that is made in Spain and what you think of the quality?

Rosemary

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Very easy, just as my great-grandparents did... the elderly ended sat on a rocking chair by a corner of the only room of the house with heating, and died at home of natural causes that would no longer be treated at hospitals. Depending on the particular family, they might have some respect from the rest of the family or, more possibly, they would be seen as somebody useless who only wastes time and food. That is the recognition they would get after a hard working life, because there would be no more elderly care homes, pensions, and in a family farm their only house would be for the first-born, and it would be up to him how many people he can support.

Looking forward to that! :rofl:

It's very easy to preach to the younger ones that they should go back to the ways the pensioners lived... but the pensioners are benefiting from the system they are now criticising... :D

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Maybe we are being a bit bleak and Cman has the answer to all our negatives, the solution being that you train your children to "marry well" as he says.

Then the daughters of the family could marry a rich old duffer, provide and heir and spare, than the parents would not need to worry.

Bring back the "marriage for coffers" system............

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The only thing I have that was made in Spain is a mattress which I had made in Valencia. Of necessity it was custom made as fits inside a beautiful large antique bed frame. I went to the factory and saw it being made there. I cannot fault the service nor the quality.

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We have quite a few things that were made in Valencia and very pleased with them because of the quality. Great that you could see the mattress being made.

Rosemary

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That is a very valid point Eva, it seems very ironic that thoses advocating living "on the land" like the old days, all family together, and being content to live and work, and effectively go back in time, have taken advantage of an ever shrinking world and live in a foreign country.

When what they are advocating as the way forward is to reduce the size of the world to ones own smallholding.double standards or what?

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I am only just in my 30s, most of my working life has been through economic depression, wages have decreased in both the UK and Spain over the past 8 years, so I dont know what you are talking about double standards

You realise people lived in other countries many years ago you know?

People can do what they want, I am not telling people what to do. But, if you look at the sustainability of the planet then small holdings and a stable population is the best for everyone

Life in the cities is only good in periods of growth. During hard times it is a horrible place to be

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I see an opportunity here for another TV "reality" show - take 4 younger Spanish people (or indeed British expats living in Spain) who have been brought up in more pampered circumstances, and make them live a self-sufficient lifestyle on some remote finca, see how they cope. You could even call it "Living the Dream"!:D

Cricketman could apply to be on it - but you can't take your internet, that would be cheating.

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....or maybe "living the nightmare", for those more used to pampered circumstances.
I think C'man would be an ideal first candidate if he didn't get serious internet withdrawal symptoms after the first few hours.

The fact is that pampered protected lifestyles amongst the masses are a very recent thing.
Up until 150 years ago, people have had no choice but to live the sort of basic existance which some on this forum now consider to be almost unthinkable, for tens of thousands of years and no doubt considered it to be pretty well the norm.
However as the saying goes, "what you've never had you've never missed".

It would be an interesting experiment which the more pampered citizens of nanny states might find extremely difficult if not totally impossible, whilst hardy country dwellers from remote backward areas may well be able to adjust.

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I am not doubting it will be hard, how hard depends on how good the plot you buy is I guess ;) And there would need to be some serious re-skilling

But the debt end-game has to happen sooner or later. I am quite interested in the "7 civilisations" theory which says that the current civilization of the past 1000 years is due to collape within the next 100 years.

If it does, people will desert the cities as there will be no reason to be there. it will be the people with enough land to support their family who will be in the best position.

Human society works best at the small village/collection of small holdings level in groups of roughly 2,000. This enables everyone to exchange skills and goods.

My OH's great grandad built his house in a month with the wood from his plot of land and help from the guys in the village. The house is still in great condition 100 years later. In contrast, we have to work 25 years to pay a mortgage on a house that for him he did in 1 months hard work.

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Anyone read El Camino by Miguel Delibes? Highly recommended. Story of a young boy growing up in a small pueblo in Cantabria.

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Maybe the Iranians will have a solution to all our problems

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/why-britain...with-iran.html

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Yeah and some of those houses are still the same, with compacted dirt floors, and the occupants still shit in a bucket,that is ifthey havent been forced out, by poverty, no work and had to emigrate.

Those days are gone it can never go back to the "good old days" of one living cheaply off the land.
People did not need cash as they do now, they could get by, water from the well, burning wood for heating and cooking, no showers, people conformed with a hosing down once in while.

People now arent content walking around smelling like donkey piss they want deodourants,toothpaste etc. and women being used to the luxuries of lets call the "hygene products" are not going to be happy washing out scraps of fabric every month.

coz like it or not "luxuries" cost money and with your plan of 100k to fund the lifestyle for generations to come, wont go far.

If that is what floats your boat fine,but millions of Spanish decided they wanted more by moving their feet, and emigrating.

And if it is so good why arent all your BILS SILS and the like still doing it?
They had the property so what went wrong?

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You do really get yourself in a tiz about nothing

What I am talking about is theoritical. I say there is about a 1 in 4 chance that the whole of capitalism goes kaput and if that happens that a return to the villages is in order

In any case, I am still an advocate of returning to the villages but this needs government support to create jobs and business opportunities and renovate those which are really run down

My SIL is talking about getting out the city. She works 60 hour weeks in BCN. Good money but there is no point if you have no time. She says maybe we should try it out and if its good, she'll join us ;) She says she we would be better off earning 1000 euros a month in Asturias then 5-6 times that in Barcelona

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I'm genuinely impressed.