CSA Absent father
 

Hi All
I moved to the Costa Blanca in March this year with my partner. Life is good so far. On the day we arrived I recieved a call from the CSA in the UK saying my daughters natural father had been in touch. As we now live in spain he will not pay any maintenence for her. They closed the case. ( I expected this as he refused may times in the Uk and was violent to me) He caused misery for her through the summer, very long story.
I have heard that there is a system in Europe to collect maintence. Something to do with the "Hague convention" has anyone heard or done this? Apparently we would apply to the courts in spain for this?
I have looked searched past posts with no luck.

That you

Re: CSA Absent father
 

Suggest you visit an English speaking Solicitor who deals in English and Spanish law. Can recommend a couple if you live near the coast.

Re: CSA Absent father
 

I know nothing about your case, and did he agree to you taking his child out of the country ?

What about your partner, won`t he contribute to his new family ?

I personally think in this type of case it is very unfair to expect the childs father to pay when it should be your new partner looking after you and your child.

Re: CSA Absent father
 

surely the natural father should contribute to the upkeep of the child?


good point about the father agreeing to take the child out the country though

Re: CSA Absent father
 

I apologise for any misunderstanding - I wasn't asking for your "personal" opinion on my circumstances and confused as to why you think a father paying maintenance for his child is "very unfair"!! But as you decided to give it I will reply. Yes , we had full permission to come here and he never contributed in the UK,either. My current partner does support me and my daughter. He also supports his children from his first marriage as he is a decent upstanding person who does not shy away from his responsibilities. However, your opinion of a father walking away and taking no responsibility for his offspring is very old fashioned, outdated and inappropriate. It smacks of a teenage boys view of "I'll have all of the fun, but walk away from responsibility." Certainly not a trait that I would be proud to engender. Also, for your information, I work and am capable of supporting myself and my children but that is not the issue here! I was under the impression that this forum to was to offer advice and information, not offer insults on a situation you know nothing about.

Re: CSA Absent father
 

I agree and disagree with you on that JDR.
It is LAW that the natural Father, or Mother, should contribute to the general maintenance costs of their Child/ren - towards whom ever is the primary parent.

I agree with what you mean about 'double dipping' on the incomes though :thumbdown:

DSB.

Re: CSA Absent father
 

Look at this website under the section for reciprocal enforcement of maintanance orders - the office are very helpful.
http://www.officialsolicitor.gov.uk/os/offsol.htm

Re: CSA Absent father
 

If you post on a forum then also expect opinions that you may not like to hear.
I know a man in the same position having lost his girlfriend and child and having someone hound him for money that the new family do not even need is the last thing he needs.
Are you sure it´s not you and her walking away from him ?
The only unfair thing I see is you having children and then splitting up, moving in with someone else and expecting the natural father to contribute to the running of the family.
You have cut him off from his child and expect him to pay money that maybe he cannot afford to the new guy to look after her.
As you say you can afford to look after her yourself, so why not just do that.

Re: CSA Absent father
 

Rather an old fashioned approach, but one I share. I fail to see why a father should pay for a child that has been taken to a different country, and that has two "parents" capable of supporting it.

Re: CSA Absent father
 

If you can afford to take care of yourself and your kids. Have some pride and do just that. If he is as awful as you suggest you're all well rid of him

Re: CSA Absent father
 

If you want official information you should go to an abogado. Forums from what I've seen are for informal advise, personal opinions and chit chat and thats what you got.

As for maintenance, my eldest is now 26 and I'm still waiting for maintenance and he left me when she was 4yo, we went to courts, CSA, I tried bribery, corruption....... It seems if a man really doesnt want to pay it, then he wont, it doesnt matter who chases him for it! But its worth a try

Jo xxx

Re: CSA Absent father
 

........... one thing that crosses my mind,(knowing what ex husbands can be like) is that if you push too hard, is he likely to insist your daughter is back in the UK, so that he can have visitation rights??????? "If I've gotta pay then I wanna see her" attitude?????? just a thought :unsure:


Jo xxx

Re: CSA Absent father
 

I was wondering why the OP thinks that she is likely to succeed in getting money from the childs father when moving to Spain because it is Europe when their home country (UK) has closed the case. Is the UK not in Europe then?

Also agree with jojo and some of the other posters here. The OP has the child and sufficient means to raise it thus the post attracted comments because it looks like someone wanting some kind of revenge and/or are just money grabbing.

Re: CSA Absent father
 

As you rightly mention, I do look after my daughter myself and have done for many years. That doesn't necessarily mean that it is easy. Just for your information, my ex-husband left me for a newer model and can easily afford payments, but chooses not too. Also, I have paid the costs for my daughter to see her natural father three times this year,and all he does is takes her to pubs and clubs, which are completely inappropriate for her. I feel for your friend, but all cases are different and the absent fathers are not always the good guys.

Re: CSA Absent father
 

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Re: CSA Absent father
 

Loving it so Far, Sorry I don't have any info for you but welcome to the forum and I'm glad you're enjoying life in Spain, Triana :)

Re: CSA Absent father
 

Have you tried to talk to your ex and see if you can appeal to his better nature (I'm sure he has one lol) and see if you can sort it out without the intervention of any agencies, they can sometimes make things worse, just by their involvement??

As for where your ex takes your daughter when he has her, sadly, its down to him as long as it doesnt involve abuse, as your daughter grows she will make it quite clear to him how she feels and where she'll go when she sees him - My daughters disliked their father intently during their teenage years and refused to visit him (that went down well - not!). Now they're adults, they get on well with him, but on their terms - actually we all get on well now. We even spent christmas with him, my husband and our kids, his wife and their daughter, our joint older girls - one big happy family that I never thought I'd see considering the acrimony during our divorce! He still owes me maintenance tho!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jo xxx

Re: CSA Absent father
 

That's the trouble with asking for information on an internet forum, you disclose a third of the circumstances hoping that it's sufficient to get you the wise answers you are looking for, and also because to disclose any more of it would make your post too long.

Then you need to disclose more because people haven't fully understood your question.

I must admit I agreed with some of the harsher comments until the OP explained more, and I'm now on her side, for all that matters.

On the criminal side, European law is being made to apply to all EU countries, and the civil side must surely follow. But the CSA is such a shambles in the UK that I doubt the rest of the EU will adopt anything like it.

Re: CSA Absent father
 

It really shouldn't matter who leaves who, if a father leaves he should still want to contribute towards his childs upbringing and vice versa. I dont know about the legalities in Spain but I would think any decent person would have or feel a moral duty towards their child/children, in my opinion I think it would matter to that child /chrildren to know that the absent parent cared enough to do that
Liz

Re: CSA Absent father
 

The lady asked a civil question, so why could you simply not give a civil reply ?
Fact is you cannot give the info that she seeks, or point her to where she may find it. So on balance you should of said nothing as I suspect you would not have said that to her face !

Brian

Re: CSA Absent father
 

You obviously don`t know me very well. ;-))

Can anybody on here give her an answer ?
The people dealing with the case have given up, so what chance are pixels on a computer going to give her ?

I find a little bit of irony in your answer too, you have not helped her, just got a bit personal like you only seem able to do.

Re: CSA Absent father
 

:rofl::rofl: I got personal ?, surely you must see the irony in that statement of your above.

Brian

Re: CSA Absent father
 

The irony was you telling me off for posting my thoughts on the matter with this post, on balance maybe you should of said nothing too. ;-))

"Originally Posted by playamonte
The lady asked a civil question, so why could you simply not give a civil reply ?
Fact is you cannot give the info that she seeks, or point her to where she may find it. So on balance you should of said nothing as I suspect you would not have said that to her face !

Brian"

Re: CSA Absent father
 

There you go !

Brian

Re: CSA Absent father
 

I don't think the lady asked for our personal opinions, but it's inevitable that she will get them, I guess! I used to be a very active member of the first "anti CSA" group in it's very early stages, being married to an "absent" father who was denied access to his children by his ex wife prior to court intervention, ordered by the CSA to pay 80% of his earnings and bollocks to any children we may have had, so I could wax lyrical for a very long time with the way I see the situation, and the unfairness of it all.

However, it doesn't answer the lady's question, does it?

Re: CSA Absent father
 

I cannot give any advice on this matter, but I would like to give my opinion.

I cannot understand why a father would not want to pay for his own child or children, even if the mother can afford to keep them.

I have never been in this type of situation, but pride would not allow me to let another man take over the full financial burden of MY children.

No matter what the finances are, most fathers can afford to pay something towards their childs upkeep, even if the money is not needed for everyday living it should still be paid regularly.

It is such a "cop out" to say, that the wife has a new partner, only a shit father would lose the respect of his children over a few quid.

Re: CSA Absent father
 

There are many complex emotional issues in this situation, and as you say, you have never been in it. It is not a question necessarily of not wanting to pay, or even not being able to pay. It's more a question of, in most circumstances, the "absent" father is treated so unfairly, and is often only absent because the mother makes it that way. The only time the kids lose respect for the father is after years of systematic brain washing. They care not a jot for the financial implications unless it's rammed down their throats every day; all they want is to be allowed to love and continue to see both of their parents. And don't forget, the majority of fathers have to walk away, or are chucked out at the whim of the mother, with only the shirt on their back.

Re: CSA Absent father
 

I agree that happens men are foreced out and gets the short straw, but from what I have seen and heard, that is not the majority. I have friends who do not pay a bean towards their childrens upkeep. They have nice cars and holidays, so money is not the issue.
I even know one that gave up a job so as not to pay.

Most of them have the attitude, that if the other new man, has got money let him pay.
I would have to pay towards my child or children because it is the right thing to do.

Re: CSA Absent father
 

trust me, there are circumstances in which you wouldn't pay. There are many men who don't take the attitude of "let the new man pay"; that's not usually why they won't, in my experience. It is usually much deeper and much more complex than that. If you have already given your house and everything in it, for example; that could be a fairly acceptable reason. Perhaps you just have questionable friends. Or perhaps their new partners are financially able to fund their lifestyle

Re: CSA Absent father
 

Loving it so far, back to your thread. If the CSA have closed the case, move on and get on with your new life. If he is genuinely a bad father (and only you know in your heart the answer to this) your daughter is probably better off without him anyway. Enjoy your life as it is now and put the past behind you, because until you can do this you will never be truly happy

Re: CSA Absent father
 

Loving it so far
Are you able to appeal against the CSA's decision? What are their grounds for closing the case? Are there still Citizen's Advice Bureaux in England? If so, could someone go there on your behalf for a quick consultation to find out? If you can appeal, do so. If not, try the European route (sorry, don't know how). As your daughter continues to see her father and, given what you have explained (and I'm sorry you felt because of some posts that you had to justify your stance), I believe he should pay. Even if you don't use the money now for every day things, it could help your daughter in the future with education, training, medical treatment, travel, deposit on a flat, whatever.

Re: CSA Absent father
 

Thanks for your posts, you describe some situations so much better as you have actually been there.

There are always two ends to a stick and it is usually the husband that gets the kaka end. ;)

Re: CSA Absent father
 

I have not seen one case where the 'contributions' for the child given to the Mother have been spent on the Child / living costs.
Seems like every time I've seen the money land the Mother orders loads of new crap and splashes out on a large holiday..

Back to square one.
DSB.

Re: CSA Absent father
 

You must know some really "classy" women, the separated or divoced mums we know, are like tigers defending their cubs.

Even if it is the case that the moeny is blown on crap, the father still should pay his dues, if he doesnt he is not a father, he is merely a "sperm donor"

There are too many men in this world shirking their duty as fathers, it is just not right..............

Re: CSA Absent father
 

If the Mother blows the money on crap then she is neither a Mother than the Father is a Father either.

I'm just stating, as this is a Forum, that the bad people spoil it for the legitimate cases.
I feel that's where a lot of the previous posts of venting are coming from.

DSB.

Re: CSA Absent father
 

2 wrongs dont make a right, all I am saying even if the mother is a waster, it is not an excuse for the father to not pay what he should by law and by the code of decency. That is my take on the issue.

there are lots of personal things to be considered in any break up, but I personally, think that the responibility for any children belongs to the sire as well. Even if his contribution is minimal.

Re: CSA Absent father
 

Couldn't have put it better myself :thumbup:

Re: CSA Absent father
 

And the new wife and kids if there are any!

Re: CSA Absent father
 

Good advice from someone with relevant experience :thumbup:

Re: CSA Absent father
 

The problem is that far too many fathers are being penalised for something that was not of their making. Good friend of ours absolutely dotted on his wife and daughter, the wife decided she wanted to have a fling behind his back, and has now moved in with her new man. Now our friend has had his life devastated, he has had the two most important things in his life no longer in his life, and if that is not enough, he has to pay for his daughter until she is 16. Yes, he'll get very limited access, but it's hardly the same is it?