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And this from N332 about changes to how we go about our daily lives here.

Although if Im honest, we haven't stopped wearing ours...

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/british...b4a10782dc.png

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Well done Spain

If people followed the guide lines this pandemic if not defeated would have been less severe

Unfortunately there will always those that know better and have no respect for themseves or others

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do you have to wear a face nappy in Gibraltar?.Not sure any one’s going to listen to Boris anymore regardless what he tries to impose. I had symptoms after two jabs just as my sister and her family did without any of theirs. I Thought I would have milder symptoms but was just the same really. Covid wasn’t to bad really.

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Like all those who think having a bit of paper 'protects' them.

Also looks like the Valencia region has extended the passport thing to cover all bars and restaurants even on the outside terrace.
We had already decided that apart from shopping and our walks we were going to give the bars a miss for a bit.
Life don't revolve around a beer..

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Having a bit of paper doesn't protect you, but not having it does. The point is to keep the unvaccinated out of areas with higher concentrations of people because later on if they catch it they clog up hospitals and ICUs.

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Yes in shops and on public transport

No face mask no entry to shops

No face mask you walk because you will not be allowed to board a bus.

People here have respect for others

Does a face mask give 100% protection? I doubt it but it will offer a degree of protection

Whilst the Moronic variant of covid may not be as severe as other variants it may devastate the economy both public and personal.

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How dare you belittle the effort of people to protect themselves and others from Covid,

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I only found out about this at 5:30 this morning whilst walking the dog past the local police station. Fredbargate I think the question was about wearing a mask in the street.

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Takes more than a face nappy to protect yourself against Covid. Did you not see what the scientists in Wuhan had to wear to try and protect themselves and yet they still caught covid and managed to spread it. Live you life. You don’t get a second chance.

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Look after the pennies and the pounds will take care of themselves.
Once you decide not to wear a mask, you begin to consider not doing other things, like being in close contact with others etc. You get into close proximity to more and more people because you still haven't, or so you think, caught it.
Eventually you believe you may well leave it all up to fate, well, you are young and fit, aren't you? So getting covid and dying from it is such a remote possibility, what does it matter?
Ignore the fact that mask wearing reduces the transmission of your infection to others, it doesn't really factor into your thinking, so why bother with one?

Every little step someone takes to not do whatever is necessary, and common sense also tells you it is, but people ignore that little voice as well, increases risk to that person and others.
Every little step you take to reduce risk, the pennies, increases the overall effect, the pounds.
I'm fed up with having to wear one, I'm fed up with all the restrictions on day to day life, having to show covid certificates and so on, yet I continue. Why?
Because I see my elderly neighbour, or vulnerable people in the shop, and I wonder, if they catch it and die, was it me who, because I was asymptomatic and stood talking to them without a mask on, never realised I was infectious?

When not wearing a mask, you not only increase the risk of transmission and infection to yourself, but that's fine, you are unlikely to suffer seriously from it, but you also increase the risk to me. Me. I value my life over your choice no matter how low the possibility is that I'll be infected, suffer and/or die. My state of health trumps your feeling of being uncomfortable for an hour or so.
People who don't wear a mask at the required times are short sighted, selfish, narcissistic and lack empathy.
Rant over.
This is not a personal attack but a general one on all non-mask wearers.

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Spot on nothing protects one 100% but measures such as masks help reduce spread so follow the rules. I see Spain is putting forward the re imposing of masks at all times outdoors. I believe it is up for ratification today.

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Say what you like. It’s not going to change my views. Just heard before that a friends mother went in for a booster and had a clot and a
mini stroke. Just in time for Xmas.

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Just now BBC reports mask wearing is necessary outside in ES.

We were in Spain till 2 December and the majority of (Spanish) people were wearing masks outside in Ayamonte, even though it wasn't proscribed, so I dont think the Ayamonte residents will see this as a big deal.

It actually doesn't bother me, much, during these times - except my glasses steam up (more than usual :) )

Jon
PS on another subject .. last year I got a pretty bad eye infection, from inadvertently rubbing my eye after using alcohol hand gel. So be aware....

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To be honest most Spanish and a fair number of us foreign residents tend to wear masks all the time when out. We don't in the village but there are only about 80 people who live there full time.

As to the eye infection, try brake fluid, once you do that you never rub your eyes ever again without washing them first..... :)

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Gosh... Just heard that the Aussies are going to charge the un-vaxed for hospital treatment if they get Covid.

Hmmmm I have to think about that.

On one hand it seems to go against sort of Hippocratic oath, duty of care etc etc.

On the other if someone near-n-dear (or me) was refused life saving treatment like (say) Cancer treatment (or it was seriously delayed) Id be very unhappy ....to say the least.

Should the voluntarily un-vaxed (not those who cant take the vax for medical reasons) expect to get the same priority treatment when sick with covid? After all they've paid for it and have a 'contract' with the government and health services....???

Hmmmm. Confused!

Jon

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:)

Sounds like you've had experience of that... Ouch.

Handgel has become so universal now, that we may not think about that unconscious eye-rub. I use a tissue now, as you say once bitten twice shy!

Jon

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Not wishing to doubt you, but do you have a link for that?

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I had the one-shot J&J (Janssen) vaccine and got the moderna vaccine

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This morning popped along to get my pre-departure covid test.

Happy to see that there is now I estimate between 70 and 80% use of face masks, in the street/outdoors.

When I was a the centre to get the test, one nurse was in the street organising matters.

Everyone had a mask on there apart from one typical macho guy... I saw him speaking to the nurse.

If she gets ill because he was too selfish to wear a face mask, then that is one of our frontl ine health workers out of action.

It for exactly this reason that everyone should wear a mask and a failure to do so is irresponsible and selfish!

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A bit like giving all the links necessary to prove the benefits of mask wearing but you won't be persuaded by medical science?
What is your reason for not wearing a mask then?

Because you know someone, the mother of a friend, that means you won't get a booster shot? But you have, have you? You have vaccinations?
The point of what you've written is what? That being vaccinated is too risky? Enlighten me.

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Some people are exempt from wearing a mask due to other health problems making breathing difficult with a mask.

However, I have often wondered why they do not utilise a face shield instead as surely this would not restrict their breathing and would be better than wearing nothing as this would be a layer of protection for other people that they come into contact with.

Taking responsibility for yourself and others is respectful.

Rosemary

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So how do you know that wasn't going to happen anyway? Anyone can pluck random examples from the air to back up what they are saying.

But it is the scientists, who have used statistics, to demonstrate that the use of vaccines is safe and provides protection.

Do you have any data to support your bizarre views?

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Murcia is operating new restrictions as of tomorrow. All non essential businesses shut at 1.00am -6.00am. Restaurants, discos pubs etc

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I had just seen it on BBC news on TV when I posted it - it was a short news item about how different countries were responding to the situation... Not a lot of detail, but it piqued my interest in the ethical arguments on either side.

But its easy to just search for it on the web....

​​​​​​ E.g

https://www.theguardian.com/australi...for-covid-care

I mentioned duty of care and the Hippocratic oath, (my personal interpretation) and this article shows that the doctors are against it, but the politicians are seriously considering it.

Also I mentioned the opposite side of the 'coin' i.e these unvaxed taking up hospital resources that have delayed other key treatments.

A conundrum...

I remain confused about this for the reasons I mentioned, and haven't chosen a 'side'.. and wonder what people think.

Jon
Australia’s peak doctors body has criticised an “unethical” proposal to charge unvaccinated people for their medical care that is being considered by the New South Wales government.

The state’s health minister, Brad Hazzard, confirmed the government was looking at forcing people who had not received the jab to pay for their medical bills if they required hospital treatment for Covid.

“This is an option under consideration by the NSW government,” Hazzard said in a statement on Wednesday evening after it was first reported by Sydney radio station 2GB.

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TBH I would have thought that it must be very embarrassing to have refused the vaccine on anything other then fear of needles ( which is understandable) and end up in hospital. I mean how do you reason to yourself?. Do you still insist on believing that it is just a cold? Do you not feel grateful to people helping you by putting themselves at risk. If I was someone who refused a vaccine and believed in my principles I would have the balls to take my chances on my own than go begging for help. Now isnt that the kind of fighting talk these folk profess to like?

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Just by chance I was watching the programme after BBC breakfast this morning. One presenter mentioned that he wad scared of needles, but he was fully vaccinated. He also mentioned something that Id never heard of before, a cream that dulls the pain of tattoos. He used it for the vaccination and didn't feel a thing. A great idea and I wonder why that hasn't been suggested many times before. So I searched for it...

E.g

https://www.savedtattoo.com/best-tattoo-numbing-cream/

Jon

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I dont think it is necessarily the pain as the idea that creates the phobia. Either way I can accept that as a reason not to want to get vaccinated. I think that some adults can get very stressed by the idea ( usually due to a childhood experience) and the reaction could be fainting which they might feel embarrassed by. However, people refusing because it infringes their human rights ( try Afghanistan maybe), or that it is part of some satan loving billionaire-paedophine group, or that it is going to make you feel ill or give you a 60% chance of a stroke etc are entitled to their opinions but at least they should stick to their principles and not bother pleading with a doctor( who actually risks catching the virus daily) to help them. Fair enough?

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I dont think it is necessarily the pain as the idea that creates the phobia. Either way I can accept that as a reason not to want to get vaccinated. I think that some adults can get very stressed by the idea ( usually due to a childhood experience) and the reaction could be fainting which they might feel embarrassed by. However, people refusing because it infringes their human rights ( try Afghanistan maybe), or that it is part of some satan loving billionaire-paedophine group, or that it is going to make you feel ill or give you a 60% chance of a stroke etc are entitled to their opinions but at least they should stick to their principles and not bother pleading with a doctor( who actually risks catching the virus daily) to help them. Fair enough?

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If I may, I'd like to separate out specifically the needle phobia from the larger discussion, please.

There are 'levels' of phobia from mild to severe. I found the tatoo cream idea a wonderful idea. After all it worked out for the presenter, so it should work for a percentage of the phobia-group.

If I hadn't heard of it - then I'm sure others haven't either. So if this idea can 'get around' it will help to get more people vaxed.... As it did for the presenter. I'm glad he mentioned it on TV as s start.

The more the merrier :thumbsup:

Jon

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Part of Gibraltars Chief Minister's address to the country this afternoon

Mr Picardo described how two of the patients currently in hospital were men in their 70s, one jabbed, the other unvaccinated by choice. The former was on the Covid-19 ward, the latter was intubated in the ICU.

Had he been jabbed, Mr Picardo said, he would “very, very, very likely” have avoided the need for intubation.

“That would have saved our health professionals a huge amount of stress, time and expense on his care,” he said.

Mr Picardo said the decision not to get jabbed carried “consequences”.

He urged people with concerns about vaccination to discuss these with their doctor.

“Don’t ask Facebook, Google or YouTube,” he said.

Also today the split of Delta and Omicron is aroung 60-40 however it takes around three days for test results

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I have needle phobia to the point that I switch off the TV if someone is knitting

For almost two years now everytime I switch the TV on there is a picture of a hypodermic.:thumbdown:

However I have had three jabs

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Most of the voluntary un vaxed at the hospital (Bradford)ward my brother works in are Asian and/or obese. They are the people who are really Sick on the covid ward. So people would really have to tread carefully when it comes to that issue. Most vulnerable white people have had their jabs. Same can’t be said about the BAME community.

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Are you now trying to bring RACISM into this thread to justify your opinion?

Rosemary I fell these last two posts should be removed.

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nothing racist about that post. Just stating facts about the large percentage of unvaccinated BAME community that covid measures would ostracise. Especially revoking peoples medical care. You really are a wet flannel.

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You have never made any secret of the fact that you are racist. If indeed you are purely stating a fact and not being racist you need to provide a link to prove what you have said.

Rosemary

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From The Times

A third of Londoners are completely unvaccinated, as a surge of Omicron cases sweeps the capital.

The Prince of Wales yesterday spoke out against anti-vaccination conspiracy theories as he thanked volunteers and NHS staff at a vaccination centre.

Professor Paul Hunter, an epidemiologist at the University of East Anglia, said London’s lower take-up was “probably due to a number of things. London has an ethnically diverse population and it has been difficult to roll the vaccine out to some ethnic groups, so I’m sure that’s part of it. There’s a lot of poverty in parts of London, and that sort of thing also impacts on the take-up of vaccines.”

For various reasons there does seem to be a strong resistance to vaccination among some ethnic groups. Do Paul Hunter's comments make him a racist?

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As to P.Hunter (I don't know who he is) being racist, NO because he is partly correct.

As a lad of 15 we had the BCG injection. Was standard practice in the late 70's.

When both my children were born in 1992 and 94 respectively they were both given the BCG at birth as we lived in Southall, which at the time was around 95% Asian.
I asked why and was told that there were lots of TB cases in the hospital and in the local area. As well as the usual Measles, etc. Of which a very low proportion of the local population had been vaccinated against.
When they got to around 15 the schools they were in sent home the consent form which I refused and noted that they had already been done. The school did not believe us.

Polo was the other one, I can remember having that on a cube of sugar and NONE of my Asian friends at school had it.

So not racist, most of it comes down to how they were brought up, you also have to remember that there are a huge number of people in the Uk, who even though they may have been in the country for years, still don't speak the language.
Again as a lad, I used to go to my friends homes (and they mine) most of the Asian kids only spoke Hindi or whatever dialect at home, usually because their mothers could not speak English, as they only ever saw and spoke to other women from their own racial group.

Anyway back on topic, all of our local bars etc are now asking for the covid pass to enter, even the little 'shack' we go to, that has no inside seating, but we had already given them the box of chocs and a card, so I will just wave as we drive the Moke past (although they did say that they would probably close up if this came in).
One of our other haunts has decided to close at 5pm tonight and stay closed until sometime in the new year. Because even after the lockdowns and curfews, people have just changed their habits and rarely go out anymore.

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So how will that work then??? Seeing as Australians already pay via the medicare system. My daughter pays so much each month and then pays for her treatment and is then refunded back a %.

Are they going to do the same with the indigenous population, most of whom are scattered across the vast empty parts of the country?
While you are at it Smokers, Alcoholics, Drug addicts, Drivers who text, don't wear seat belts, idiot climbers or walkers who get stuck up mountains, I could go on....

Also thousands die each year from flu... whats the difference there then???
I've never had a flu jab and never had flu (that I know of) will I have to pay if I catch it and end up in hospital??

I also have private medical insurance here in Spain, so Im not a drain on the health service anyway, If I decide not to have the boosters because I don't think they are helping (or Im fit and healthy and believe that I wont suffer too much if I catch it) what will they do? Im essentially paying for my treatment so it should not be withheld.

Or lets say the Uk decided to roll out something similar. All employed people pay for the health service, you can't make them pay as they are already... so can they then withdraw paying their NI contributions?

I don't want to make this comment but will

Didn't my grandparents fight wars to stop this sort of thing happening???
Freedom and the right to live in peace without persecution (thats probably bit harsh when you consider what happened during the last war, but you get my drift)

No more comments from me, Im getting fed up with the human race (might sign up for the Mars mission) :)

Happy Christmas anyway...

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Vaccine hesitancy amongst some groups has always been so, from Polio to Covid and all others.
Figures from last year suggest - "Vaccine hesitancy is highest for Black people, followed by Bangladeshi/Pakistani people."
Also - "the COVID-19 death rate for Black African men was 62 per 100,000 compared with 12 per 100,000 for White men. The rate for Bangladeshi men was 61 per 100,000. Black African women had the highest under-65 death rate of any ethnic group, with 27 deaths per 100,000, compared with seven per 100,000 White women. The rate for Pakistani women was also more than three times as high as the rate for White women, with 26 deaths per 100,000."
From the NHS -
https://www.england.nhs.uk/south-eas...-belief-A4.pdf

Also, regarding health care workers themselves (HCW's) from The Lancet -
"Findings - 11,584 HCWs were included in the cohort analysis. 23% (2704) reported vaccine hesitancy. Compared to White British HCWs (21.3% hesitant), HCWs from Black Caribbean (54.2%), Mixed White and Black Caribbean (38.1%), Black African (34.4%), Chinese (33.1%), Pakistani (30.4%), and White Other (28.7%) ethnic groups were significantly more likely to be hesitant."
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...157-5/fulltext

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Darwin theory in action?