Re: Covid update
 

I try to keep politics out of it, but I agree with Chipmonk.

There is already community transmission of the Omicron variant, and the measures they take are re-impose the post-arrival test tell everyone it's under review in three weeks, then a week later re-impose the post-departure test.

They should be doing social distancing, contact tracing, limited events, and probably the Covid pass to convince the stragglers to get a vaccination.

Everything is driven by what the Tory party allows Johnson to do, which is very little except blame abroad (out of the populism playbook).

Re: Covid update
 

People will turn soon. I heard of poor people getting paid to have peoples injections in his arm. He’s getting £500 a jab mind you.

Re: Covid update
 

Wait until you are sat on a plane next to the idiot who paid the £500

Re: Covid update
 

I’m not flying anytime soon. The restrictions have took the buzz out of going to the airport. Also the tests and paranoia of covid politics changing while your away it’s pointless going away anymore. Wouldn’t be surprised alot of airlines go bump in the future. I don’t criticise anyone for not wanting a vaccine. Even though I have always had mine. The forced covid vaccine politics is making me not want to have anymore. What’s going on now in Europe is tyranny.

Re: Covid update
 

Leaving politics out of it completely.

Again the covid pass means nothing, just that you have had the jab.. (Im sorry to keep making this comment but so many around our way are saying the jab has protected them) But what from? You can still catch it and pass it, you may not die (but thats mainly for the variant you have been jabbed against)
So it allows you to travel, go in a bar or restaurant with more than 50 other people (so 49 is safe) I know a number had to be plucked out of the air..

So case in point... A good friend of ours lives up the hill from the village, rarely goes to town, except on market days to swap stuff he grows, the local butcher takes veg from him in exchange for meat (well stuff he is unable to catch himself), he has chickens, goats and rabbits. Lives off grid and hasn't been jabbed.
What is there to persuade him to get jabbed?

Nothing, he is not at much if any risk of catching it. Even less risk of spreading it.

And before anyone asks, he is a retired Chemistry Professor from Germany.. So not an idiot.

We are not fully jabbed as it took ages to get the temp sip card.
Had to change our plans slightly for Christmas as we were going to a big restaurant (which I didn't want to go to anyway as Im not happy with lots of people around me and I was like that before covid) and I wont pay €40 each for a test just for an expensive turkey dinner.
We are now going to a little local place with a couple of friends.

Re: Covid update
 

the only way that covid vaccines will be truly effective is if everyone had the jab at the same time. The whole planet that is. Absolutely no way that is going too happen Even if the jab was 100% safe. The forced lockdowns have made alot of people paranoid and anti vax.

Re: Covid update
 

Have to agree except the jab does not protect people the way they think. And the passport is not a get out of jail free card.

My wife's cousin went to LA for the weekend 'because they were jabbed and they were protected' and while there are idiots like that in this world it will never be over.

So Im finished with these threads as we all have differing views and thats what ultimately will be the reason this will continue.

Re: Covid update
 

I am flying home tomorrow

I hope I don't come into contact with one of these selfish dickheads who has cheated in order to fly or any other contact

Re: Covid update
 

Well my brother has covid and has had both jabs. Also his gfs mum who has had all her jabs also has caught covid. So you can still pass it out regardless of how many jabs you have had. People need to relax and learn to live with this virus now. We are lucky that it is no where near as fatal as previous global pandemics.

Re: Covid update
 

So you are happy for people to lie their way through life?

Re: Covid update
 

"Almost 70 medics who attended a large Christmas party in southern Spain have since tested positive for Covid-19, authorities say.
Most of the 68 infected are doctors and nurses working in the intensive care unit at Málaga's regional hospital.
Health authorities said they were all at a party attended by about 170 people last Wednesday."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-59561876

Re: Covid update
 

Not bothered if people want a vaccine or don’t want one. It doesn’t affect me if I sit next to an unvaccinated person or vaccinated as vaccinated people can still catch and transmit the virus.

Re: Covid update
 

Oh dear. Quite why do you think hospitalisations and deaths have lower incidence rates compared to last year. Why, Gadzooks, sensible people have been vaxxed. Extreme example but relevant. Fancy catching COVID and having nasty flu? Get vaxxed. Fancy catching COVID and getting hospitalised or die (if old or underlying conditions)? Don't get vaxxed.

The freedom to not get vaxxed restricts my freedom to NOT sit next to higher (and they are HIGHER) risk non vaxxed people.

I am dead against compulsion. But I dont want to have an unvaxxed person coughing next to me on a 3 hour plane trip. For gods sake you're not allowed into several countries without a yellow fever jab, for example. Yet you're allowed into a sweaty night club or a plane without a jab? Freaking bonkers. BONKERS!

Re: Covid update
 

But does it matter if a vaccinated person or an unvaccinated person coughs on you if you’ve had your jabs. They both can still carry and spread it. Don’t make sense. And had the virus already started to evolve to get round the vaccines. I don’t care anymore. It could be here for the next ten million years. Why let something you have ko control over bother you. If you die. You die.

Re: Covid update
 

Cant catch yellow fever from someone else though.
The reason for having the jab for that is the same as for covid, hospital treatment.
Its bloody difficult to treat once bitten buy the fly and you never get rid of it like Malaria.
Covid is a different kettle of fish.

If tested before getting on a plane you would be less likely to spread it around, being jabbed does not protect you or anyone else. It just lessens the symptoms and how you suffer.

I would prefer as I've said before to travel with a tested unvaccinated person than someone waving a bit of paper around saying I've been jabbed, I deserve a holiday.

And now for a comparison. Someone years ago waved a bit of aper around saying peace in our time.

Last comment from me. Im getting fed up with people who think getting jabbed allows them to do whatever they want. In my view its why its still rampant..

Oh I been jabbed before anyone adds 2 and 2 and comes up with 7 and thinks I've not been...

Re: Covid update
 

I am so glad I am exempt all this bullshit. I go to airport, get on the plane and fly home and do nothing else. My wife has now to go and get a useless lateral flow test and a day 2 PCR test to make the same trip back to the UK next week.......

Its a farce of gigantic proportions.

Re: Covid update
 

Well if you dont want to be vaccinated dont get vaccinated but when you find yourself unable to travel, visit a bar, restaurant,cinema, use public transport etc remind yourself that you are cleverer and more important than everyone else and I am sure life on your own want be so bad

Re: Covid update
 

they won’t be on their own. There are millions of people maybe more that have taken the decision to not have a vaccine. I seen a video of the Xmas markets in Luxembourg I think it was were they tried to stop unvaccinated people from entering. The unvaccinated people just stormed the fence and that was the end of that. I expect a big backlash this winter. The restrictions are just making more and more people resent the governments and fuelling the paranoia.

Re: Covid update
 

Have folk already forgotten the pre-jab devastation

Re: Covid update
 

Totally agree, it's for their benefit not mine. I'm sick of pandering to these snowflakes. I respect their right to refuse a vaccine but they must accept the restrictions as their own, not for everyone. They're the same people insisting on gender neutral bathrooms, special pronouns and the cancel culture.

I didn't particularly feel the need to get the jab for medical reasons but I want my life to return to normal so had the jab plus booster. Part of me says they should ban all unvaxxed from flights, but on the other hand my kids haven't been fully vaccinated yet due to their age. Personally I would make it simple, exempt those who haven't had the opportunity to be fully vaccinated and restrict those that refused the chance. As for these absurd tests, I feel it's just a money making exercise to use up the millions of tests ordered on a knee jerk whim.

Re: Covid update
 

There are two reasons to be jabbed, medical and bureaucratic. Either one is good enough for me if it comes down to it.

Re: Covid update
 

What about those of us with natural immunity? I should point out that is more than 60% of the planet....... So in fact the majority have to pander to the minority and be treat like criminals if they don't comply.......

Re: Covid update
 

What evidence that your natural immunity is any more effect than the immunity that a jab gives you?

Re: Covid update
 

60% of the population of the world are immune to the covid virus and its mutations?
Completely? Or just to varying degrees?
How many are completely immune? 100% immune? Any really at all? How do you know?
If there is anyone, how infectious are they? Same as unvaccinated? Or less so as with a vaccinated person because even the the viral load is similar, the length of time they are infectious is far shorter.
By the way - "February 21, 2021, it was estimated that around 33 percent of the U.S. population was immune to COVID-19."
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ty-us-by-type/

Re: Covid update
 

I have been involved in a trial with Cambridge University for the last 12 months for them to understand why the naturally immune are immune in order to help develop more effective vaccines in the future. The vaccine currently does not give you any immunity, it merely helps your body recognise and fight the infection more effectively which reduces your chance of getting seriously ill. That is a big difference between vaccine and natural immunity. I do not catch covid as my body deals with it at first contact. Apparently the same reason I do not catch the flu either despite my wife getting laid low with it pretty much every year despite being vaccinated. And before anyone thinks I am suggesting I am superhuman, I am actually perfectly normal and in the approximately 60% of the planet in the same position.

It appears that some people's bodies have a natural and instant response to contact with coronaviruses like covid, common cold, covid etc. The next approximately 39% of humanity have a baseline response which means they don't get sick or have really mild symptoms but can actually share the virus (referred to as the asymptomatic carriers) who actually do the spreading. The remaining 1% are the ones that unfortunately get battered by it but if you actually look at the deaths versus the true population of the planet its actually statistically small (you have to take away the dishonest figures of dying with Covid as opposed to from Covid) its not quite the calamity we have been led to believe. Please don't for a moment think I am down playing the effects just that the picture is quite skewed and people have become afraid of a bogeyman that is not quite what it seems.

It's just an interesting observation of where we are. My job exempts me from all the testing and locator forms and I come and go across Europe and the UK on a daily basis without issue. My wife on the other hand has to have a Covid test tomorrow of her flight to the Uk on Saturday and will have to have another on arrival. I will just walk onto the aircraft and out the other side without issue. So guess which of us will have to go and do the shopping on Sunday in the UK...... :)

Re: Covid update
 

So, you have not had Covid but are naturally immune - lucky you! What % of the population are also naturally immune?

Re: Covid update
 

This is very interesting... Can you please send a link to the studies that confirm these approximate numbers, 60, 39 and 1 % and the trial... Id like to research it further....

Thanks in advance
Jon

Re: Covid update
 

I must say those guys at the front really look like the typical Christmas market customer interested in buying specialist ham, cheese, and other seasonable comestibles. It must be nice for them to have a break from their usual job of setting fire to rubbish containers.

In any ICU approximately 90% of people are unvaccinated and approximately 40% die. This is why the Covid certificate exists, to stop this happening to them. God knows what they think they're fighting for, but whatever it is, they're wrong.

Re: Covid update
 

From what I understand it is the numbers I have quoted at around 60%. I am not aberration in the statistics I am actually the norm. My T cell response indicates that I have been exposed to Covid on multiple occasions. I did a flight test on a guy who spend 2hrs coughing a spluttering all over me in the cockpit and then the next day was admitted to hospital for 2 weeks with Covid which required a major disinfection of the aircraft!

Re: Covid update
 

Just because someone coughed near you and was later diagnosed as having Covid isnt proof that you have natural immunity. I appreciate you are part of a very academic study and have been told that you are immune and you are exempt from all testing and can travel with no restrictions because you are a pilot etc but it makes the rest of us feel a bit down.

Re: Covid update
 

Are you exempt from testing because you are 'immune', or because you are a pilot?
If it is solely because of this immunity, what proof do you carry around with you?
For a normal person to enter a country they must (usually) have proof of vaccination, proof or recovery or a negative test. Never have I seen regulations, after travelling to at least a dozen countries, that add on a fourth get out of jail free card called a " Proof of Immunity" certificate.
I presume you flash your vaccination pass because there isn't such a thing, but you've been told "you are immune" by someone.

"Naturally Immune" - Why are you immune? Do you mean you are immune now because of the covid antibodies in your blood or do you mean you have none/few but are 'naturally immune' anyway. i.e. if it could have been known and measured, even before covid appeared, you would have been immune to it? You've not become that way due to covid making you so.
And still where do you get this 60% from, no matter all the other figures? - "From what I understand it is the numbers I have quoted at around 60%."
No proof then. From what I understand, you are wrong. You came up with that figure, you need to justify it.

Are you immune to all variants or just the one in the clinical test? Or don't you know?
You say "I am immune" but to all of them? Being immune is not black and white, there are varying degrees of immunity, naturally or otherwise.
That's why some die and some are asymptomatic, and many degrees in between of effect and seriousness.

If you are immune purely because you now have the antibodies, the advice is to still get the vaccination -
https://www.immunology.org/coronavir...ection-vaccine

By the way, - "How many people have covid 19 antibodies in the UK?" - around 93% - if having the antibodies truly made you fully immune, then why still promote being vaccinated? Save then a lot of money and hassle to end the vaccination campaign and restrictions, never mind the public opinion.
https://www.statista.com/chart/23961...id-antibodies/

Re: Covid update
 

Airways- just read your earlier post where you say you have been involved with a trial in UK for 12 months. How is that possible if you are a Spanish resident?.

Re: Covid update
 

I live in Spain and work in the UK. I have homes and cars in both places. I guess not everyone lives in a small box....

Re: Covid update
 

Erm.... At no point have made any sort of ant vaccine statement. I am actually fully vaccinated and 3rd booster as of the other day in the UK. And I believe that people should be vaccinated even if it is a scattergun approach to the problem.

During the original lockdown we were still flying and the only way to check if someone was infected was a blood test for the T cell count. I had multiple tests. Cambridge university asked for volunteers to participate in the research which I signed up to and have been involved in for over year now. They are researching ways to find better vaccines by looking at the immune system of the naturally immune and seeing if they can understand why we are immune. Its more than just antibodies they are studying its how our bodies react to exposure. If I understood the science I would be on the research team not one of the guinea pigs.....

I am exempt testing and isolation as aircrew not because I wave any type of certificate. When flying we have to do a lateral flow every 3 days which we do as we go on duty. When off duty we have no testing requirement.

For those in doubt... https://www.gov.uk/government/public...k-border-rules

I gave a figure I was given as part of the research, I don't have to prove anything to you........ ;)

But here you go.....

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2...-from-covid-19

Re: Covid update
 

I did say, "I presume you flash your vaccination pass..." as I understood you are vaccinated and are not anti-vaxx otherwise you wouldn't be.
Natural immunity occurs not in 60% but only 23.45% of people. So out of 100,000 - 23,450 have a so called natural immunity. Another 75,655 have varying degrees of immunity and would suffer from mild to mid-range symptoms if they caught it. The remaining 895 people would suffer severe symptoms if infected.
Of the 23,450 immune people, it is not known how many have become immune due to purely being originally infected and have thus built up antibodies before the need for measurements or the measurements themselves took place, for how many it is a combination of that and a totally natural immunity, and how many haven't suffered because they solely possessed a natural immunity to many things even before the virus came into being and it just so happened they were immune to this particular virus.

However, it is known that possessing some form of immunity doesn't guarantee immunity to all and every strain that occurs.
"Mutations speculated to reduce immune recognition, such as within the spike protein (S13I, 69-70del, W152L, A222V, K417N, N439K, S477N, T478K, E484K/Q, F490S, P681H/R) and nucleoprotein (RG203KR) should be studied for reduced sensitivity to natural or vaccine-induced immunity."
https://virologyj.biomedcentral.com/...85-021-01633-w

Also, as shown in a study done in 2015 regarding Rubella, there are doubts in all cases of the determination of immunity to anything. This translates directly in being told you are immune to Covid as the same disciplines are used in determination of immunity and thus are open to question.
"Rubella: Pitfalls in the diagnosis and the determination of the immune status."
https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...86653215003340

Your figures are wrong and mine are right and I don't have to prove them to you.

Re: Covid update
 

Okay here we go.....I have dual residence ( newbie response).

Re: Covid update
 

i am sorry but your point is uttteely lost on me….

Re: Covid update
 

I am sure you think you are…..

Re: Covid update
 

It is just you seem to be boasting about how you are so different from the rest of us.

Re: Covid update
 

"I am sure you think you are….."

Unfortunately you think you are as well on this point. As do those opposed to the vaccination (which you are not I understand) and many others who think they are right about many subjects including flat earthers etc. You've missed the point though. The point is you come out with figures 'someone told you'. I and others wonder at the veracity of these and your reply is you don't have to prove it.
"If I understood the science I would be on the research team not one of the guinea pigs....." - which makes it understandable why you have total belief in what you were told without questioning it, like I/we are and because of that belief without taking it further, you are unable to answer more specific questions. It's the easiest thing in the world to come out with statistics (60%, 39%, 1%) but without backing that up with even a rudimentary source, in conclusion, you are unpersuasive.
Stay safe.