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Re: The Cost Of Living In Spain
Originally Posted by Lynn R
(Post 10914278)
How do you account, then, for the way in which, say, residential care costs for the elderly have spiralled since the service was outsourced to the private sector? ... The extra money is going into the pockets of private investors and the taxpayer, in the main, is paying for it - except for those whose care is self-funded and who are charged higher fees to make up for the shortfall created by the fact that local authorities have a ceiling on the amount per week they are prepared to pay. ...
After that, it's a simple case of "a rising tide lifts all boats". The care homes have established a minimumm price and private patients are offered a "take it or leave it" deal. It just goes to show that there's no real competition in the sector. And it's fairly well known that nationalised industries are inefficient, as they have no incentive to become competitive, either. |
Re: The Cost Of Living In Spain
Originally Posted by pete_l
(Post 10914358)
I think you answered your own question. The costs have gone up because the people primarily paying for the service (i.e. local government) has little or no incentive to look for value. They simply pass on the cost to central government or the taxpayer and neither suffer, themselves, if costs increase, nor reap the rewards if they reduce them. All that local authority care has done is to inject more money into the system, that is always an inflationary thing to do.
After that, it's a simple case of "a rising tide lifts all boats". The care homes have established a minimumm price and private patients are offered a "take it or leave it" deal. It just goes to show that there's no real competition in the sector. And it's fairly well known that nationalised industries are inefficient, as they have no incentive to become competitive, either. There's competition from private sector firms to win Government contracts - and then the public sector (in the shape of the armed forces) has to step in at the last minute to avoid a national embarrassment when a huge company like G4S makes such a pig's ear of organising security for the Olympics. Everything the private sector touches in terms of providing public services only leads to higher bills for the taxpayer - not least in social housing. http://speye.wordpress.com/2013/08/2...more-per-year/ |
Re: The Cost Of Living In Spain
Hmm. We wouldn't have been in the state of services being privatised if it hadn't been for the Trade Unions. GMB, NALGO. TGWU etc:frown:
Er...why are we on about the UK again. Nothing to say about the state of Spain's "services":confused: |
Re: The Cost Of Living In Spain
Originally Posted by jackytoo
(Post 10914422)
Hmm. We wouldn't have been in the state of services being privatised if it hadn't been for the Trade Unions. GMB, NALGO. TGWU etc:frown:
Er...why are we on about the UK again. Nothing to say about the state of Spain's "services":confused: I mentioned them once, but fortunately I don't think anyone noticed. :rofl: |
Re: The Cost Of Living In Spain
As a matter of fact, I remember reading an interview with the Alcalde of Alhaurin de la Torre (I think it was last year), a PP representative, who said that he had never had any truck with privatising services in his area as he firmly believed that the local authority could deliver them better, cheaper and maintain better control over standards. As he pointed out, as soon as a private company became involved the Ayuntamiento would have to pay IVA as well as the costs of the service, plus the private company's profit on top of the costs of the service. As it was (at that time, may be different now) one of the few Ayuntamientos unburdened by debt and able to pay it's staff and suppliers, it seems to work for them.
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Re: The Cost Of Living In Spain
Originally Posted by jackytoo
(Post 10914422)
Hmm. We wouldn't have been in the state of services being privatised if it hadn't been for the Trade Unions. GMB, NALGO. TGWU etc:frown:
Er...why are we on about the UK again. Nothing to say about the state of Spain's "services":confused: |
Re: The Cost Of Living In Spain
Did you see this today.
Labours claim to be the party of Council housing is in tatters:huh: http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeeh...is-in-tatters/ |
Re: The Cost Of Living In Spain
Originally Posted by amideislas
(Post 10914035)
Government-administered services always tend to be inefficient. If rubbish collection is handled by local government, you can bet they pay far more than they need to for labour, equipment, insurances, etc. When the costs go beyond budget, cutbacks are obviously necessary.
When governments cut back services 50%, they're lucky to get a 20% savings (they still have to pay people, still have to maintain equipment, insurances and so-on). We save perhaps 20% per "unit", but accept a 50% reduction in service "units". We save money, but the per-unit cost is much higher. This new unit cost becomes the new basis for calculation, so to restore the 50% services previously cut, the estimated costs to restore those services would be calculated as a 100% increase in costs, which nobody will agree to, and so we just have to live with less and pay more for it. I agree with much of that although I am a great believer in public services. I just don't get why they cannot be run more efficiently. Lack of accountability I suppose, but why shouldn't that change? Outsourcing seems to me to be a short term fix that is allowing service companies to make large profits without necessarily improving the service that they are paid to provide. Are privatised railways any less costly to maintain and run now? Lining the pockets of the city folk comes to mind. On the other hand we have the unions lining their and their members pockets by being in a monopoly position (Bob Crow and pals). Is that any different? Perhaps this is simplistic but to me we have both the city and the unions lining their pockets at the expense of the rest of us. |
Re: The Cost Of Living In Spain
On the subject of public services in Spain, I don't always agree with how the Junta and the Ayuntamiento spend money (but I didn't necessarily agree with how funds were spent when I lived in the UK either).
Last week, the Junta and our Ayuntamiento signed a funding agreement to renovate and bring back into use a large historic building - almost €3m to be spent, if it comes in on budget. The contract is about to go out to tender and they hope work will begin next Spring. In a way I'll be glad to see it done as it's been an eyesore for years (it forms one side of a large plaza close to where I live), and it will provide (reportedly) over 160 jobs for the 18 month period of the project. But I can't help but wonder if it's the best use of the money with so many cuts being made in other services. On the whole, though, I think for the amount of money we pay in IBI the level of public services provided is remarkably good. Rubbish is collected every day, the streets are swept 7 days a week in the centre and Mon-Fri where I live, the roads are repaired, if I've reported something like a streetlight not working it's been attended to promptly, we have plenty of parks and children's playgrounds, roundabouts and public flowerbeds are planted out several times a year, the streets are lined with trees which the Ayuntamiento gardeners keep pruned and remove fruit from the orange trees when the season is over, we have plenty of municipal sports facilities, a theatre with a cultural programme and a comedor social opened recently where the funding was provided by the Councillors donating their extra Christmas payment (the day to day running is done by the charity Emaus). This is an example of another service helping the elderly and disabled:- http://www.diariosur.es/20130923/loc...309232148.html I also like the fact that the Ayuntamiento (as do many others) gives temporary work contracts every six months to unemployed people and the opportunities are rotated to give as many people as possible some work, at least. Many people living in my area have benefited from this. |
Re: The Cost Of Living In Spain
On the whole, though, I think for the amount of money we pay in IBI the level of public services provided is remarkably good
Perhaps this is why the manage to do it:lol: Vélez tiene una deuda de 78 millones de euros El equipo de Gobierno del PP prevé pagar 3,7 millones de euros de intereses en 2013, lo que supondrían más de 10.000 euros diarios. |
Re: The Cost Of Living In Spain
Originally Posted by johnnyone
(Post 10914614)
I agree with much of that although I am a great believer in public services.
I just don't get why they cannot be run more efficiently. Lack of accountability I suppose, but why shouldn't that change? Outsourcing seems to me to be a short term fix that is allowing service companies to make large profits without necessarily improving the service that they are paid to provide. Are privatised railways any less costly to maintain and run now? Lining the pockets of the city folk comes to mind. On the other hand we have the unions lining their and their members pockets by being in a monopoly position (Bob Crow and pals). Is that any different? Perhaps this is simplistic but to me we have both the city and the unions lining their pockets at the expense of the rest of us. Labour is the first thing that comes to mind: The unions have a lot to say about this, with full support of the government. Government employees are entitled to generous salaries, low work hours, 14 month pay years, long holidays, etc.. All of this is written in stone somewhere, and for the employee, there's little incentive to do anything more than the absolute minimum required. In any government, it often takes at least two people to do the work of one person in the private sector. Sometimes it's a requirement that some teams must have someone who simply watches the others work. Then there's equipment and services: Yes, many go out for bid, but the presumption is every case is that a government contract will always pay higher than a private sector one. A bid for 200 rubbish lorries for a public contract will usually be bid at a price higher than if the bid were for the private sector. Nobody buys 200 rubbish lorries in the private sector anyway, and the lobbying to skew the bids in favour of any one vendor is fierce, so competition for public contracts is hardly the same as it would be in the private sector.. Then there's the maintenance contracts which will always be at the upper end of the scale, and so on... Now, having said that, of course I favour public services, and frankly, outsourcing them to the private sector usually results in even more "fiddling" with the numbers and increased rip-offs, because governments are historically even worse at managing outside entities. The problem with governments is that they are effectively, monopolies. Competition in the public sector is a bit of an oxymoron. It doesn't really exist. There is only one government, and it has no competition. |
Re: The Cost Of Living In Spain
Originally Posted by amideislas
(Post 10915474)
C'mon, we all know that the cost of everything is higher in the public sector than in the private sector.
Labour is the first thing that comes to mind: The unions have a lot to say about this, with full support of the government. Government employees are entitled to generous salaries, low work hours, 14 month pay years, long holidays, etc.. All of this is written in stone somewhere, and for the employee, there's little incentive to do anything more than the absolute minimum required. In any government, it often takes at least two people to do the work of one person in the private sector. Sometimes it's a requirement that some teams must have someone who simply watches the others work. Then there's equipment and services: Yes, many go out for bid, but the presumption is every case is that a government contract will always pay higher than a private sector one. A bid for 200 rubbish lorries for a public contract will usually be bid at a price higher than if the bid were for the private sector. Nobody buys 200 rubbish lorries in the private sector anyway, and the lobbying to skew the bids in favour of any one vendor is fierce, so competition for public contracts is hardly the same as it would be in the private sector.. Then there's the maintenance contracts which will always be at the upper end of the scale, and so on... Now, having said that, of course I favour public services, and frankly, outsourcing them to the private sector usually results in even more "fiddling" with the numbers and increased rip-offs, because governments are historically even worse at managing outside entities. The problem with governments is that they are effectively, monopolies. Competition in the public sector is a bit of an oxymoron. It doesn't really exist. There is only one government, and it has no competition. When we do work for schools, as it is their own money they will pin you down to best price they can, schools I believe are much more efficient especially the primary schools and should give the local authority some frugal tips. |
Re: The Cost Of Living In Spain
questions:
1.are prices at supermarket (Spanish or Carrefour giant) the same whether they are located in a Spanish dense or Brits dense area ? food got to be cheaper given the average much lower income in Spain. and I suppose it's very good deal to buy fresh stuff in open markets too. 2. ONO: fastest internet provider ? I see EUR 27/month for 100/10MB but are they available everywhere in costa del sol? 3. any good independant garages/mechanics in the region for German cars? without having to go the official dealers and pay full prices long good thread, will keep reading |
Re: The Cost Of Living In Spain
Originally Posted by Neptuno
(Post 10911372)
Nothing I have eaten in Spain is better than a well cooked roast dinner, breakfast, fish and chips in a light, crispy batter etc in UK.
Though I quite like some meals in Spain, they are, as some have said bland, oftenlacking in decent vegetables, even though they grow many here;I love hot food, served on a hot plate-they don't seem to care about that here.They are not good on desserts here either! ok Spain ain't Italy (evident, probably best and widest cusine and ingredients in the world) but still :D Spain to us is all about seafood and the various way to prepare it, including several variations of the paella. a good approach is being able to prepare dishes taken from various countries. typically Spanish: http://www.caminoways.com/blog/wp-co...anish-Food.jpg http://deferrers.thornewill.co.uk/nt...n-food.jpg.jpg http://costas-spain.perfecttravelblo...e_of_tapas.jpg http://img.dooyoo.co.uk/GB_EN/orig/0/8/2/4/2/824246.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...%C3%A9rico.jpg http://blog.mester.com/wp-content/up...01/AAAFOOD.jpg http://www.elparador.ru/img/total-menu.jpg http://www.info-slovenia.info/wp-con...montaditos.jpg http://www.elparador.ru/img/black_mull.jpg |
Re: The Cost Of Living In Spain
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyQ-IFBfqhM
Bourdain in Granada and on the coast too. |
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