Conflict of interest
 

The European Court of Justice ignored a request from the British Government asking for a Spanish judge to step back from hearing a sensitive court case relating to Gibraltar’s territorial waters.

Both Britain and Gibraltar have now had their appeals over the designation of part of Gibraltar waters as a Spanish Site of Special interest.

At both appeals the same Spanish judge was on the panel of judges.
Brilliant EU impartiality.

Rosario Silva de Lapuerta, a Spanish judge who served for many years in the Spanish government and is the daughter of a founding member of what is now the Partido Popular

http://www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=25806


http://www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=26969


http://www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=26968

Re: Conflict of interest
 

Power without accountability.

This quote seems fitting:

" While not unique to the EU, these problems of democratic legitimacy have received particular attention in Europe, where the delegation of power to supranational institutions and agencies often is considered one component of the EU’s “democratic deficit” (e.g., Lord, 1998; Schmitter, 2000; Karlsson, 2001; Arnull and Wincott, 2003). Problems typically mentioned include technocratic decision-making, lack of transparency, insufficient public participation, exploitation of supranational discretion, and inadequate mechanisms of control and accountability. This is a critique that has been directed at all three main forms of supranational executive power in the EU."

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The Spanish Government yesterday passed legislation banning land reclamation and the offshore storage of fuel in Gibraltar waters, in a move that threatens a serious clash between the UK and Spain over jurisdiction.

http://www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=26980

In a somewhat ironic twist given the background of the fishing dispute, the Spanish management plan for the SAC also seeks to limit the use of nets, rakes and long lines

http://www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=26979

Re: Conflict of interest
 

Why does London need Gibraltar? Time to revoke the Treatry of Utrecht and give it back !

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Surely the decision to remain British is one that the people of Gibraltar are free to make.

From your user name may I ask are you in favour of rebuilding Hadrian's Wall?

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are you serious ?

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Re: Conflict of interest
 

as it was built to keep the Scots out most Englishmen would be prepared to give a week of their time helping - so long as the weather was guaranteed to be nice.
:fingerscrossed:

Re: Conflict of interest
 

Then you'd also have to give Newfoundland back to France and Sicily back to Switzerland. :unsure:

I don't think London is that bothered, it's the people who live in Gib who don't want to be part of Spain. A third of them are of Spanish origin but they hate Spain because Franco closed the border for nine years and separated them from their families. You have to respect their wishes.

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oh there are people who are bothered, but we can't tell you who or why or we would have to kill you :sneaky:

why not give all of Iberia back to the Greeks ? - they are looking for somewhere to make worse than themselves. Perhaps the Portuguese expats would feel happier with that than being merged back into a single Iberia by the Romans.
But then Italy has only been a single nation for less than 200 years so why not give everything back to the old single states.??
What about giving the Channel Islands back to France - or was it just Normandy in those days ??

Gibraltar will never be considered until Madrid (but it used to be Cadiz and Seville) considers and resolves the Cueta and Mellila problem.

And does the UK really want the USofA back ?
Does France want Canada back ? (well probably but thats another story)

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Re: Conflict of interest
 

Rebuild Hadrian's Wall and give Britannia (ie England) back to the "Imperium Romanum".

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Do they respect the wishes of the people of Cueta which Spain occupies?

Re: Conflict of interest
 

Who, the Gibraltarians? I've no idea. But the Ceutans want to stay Spanish, they don't want to be ruled by Morocco. That is Spain's excuse for hanging onto it, essentially the same as Britain's stated reason for hanging onto Gib. They both claim they are respecting the wishes of the inhabitants.

Re: Conflict of interest
 

So, therefore, Spain should stop laying claim to Gibraltar if they are willing to respect the wishes of the inhabitants. Personally I think Gibraltarians want Gibraltar to remain British because of the tax status if this was removed would they still be bothered?

Re: Conflict of interest
 

I think they would be bothered.
Who on earth in their right minds would want to be a part of Spain under present circumstances with future prospects looking even worse.

With regard to Ceuta, I wonder if they'd prefer to retain their Spanish connection were it not for the fact that they benefit quite nicely from EU handouts, somewhat ironical I would have thought considering they are part of the African continent rather than Europe.

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They could still have the special tax status and be an independent state like Andorra and Lichtenstein.

I think its more the territorial waters that are causing the conflict these days. Since Franco's days Spain isn't actually claiming the Rock belongs to them. There's a lot of money to be made in offshore refuelling ... :sneaky:

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Unfortunately Spain's interpretation of the Treaty of Utrecht prevents this unless Spain is willing to forgo Utrecht. However Spain is only interested in regaining Gib in order to destroy it and put many thousands of Spaniards out of work :frown:

The territorial waters dispute is part of the long term effort to regain Gib. Spain still claims Gib cannot be independent, but in the event that it ceases to be British it must be returned to Spain.

Correct and it is noticeable that this latest argument over areas of special interest only affects Gib waters and not the Spanish side of the bay where Spain carries out refueling.

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These territorial disputes over Gib always get Spanish media attention when it is necessary to hide other more important problems like the economy.

I wonder why :rofl::rofl::rofl:

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Written Ministerial Statement by William Hague
10 December 2012
Gibraltar: Sites of Community Importance

Any attempt by a Spanish State vessel, or vessel acting on behalf of the Spanish State, to exercise jurisdiction within BGTW is a violation of British sovereignty and we will respond accordingly.

http://www.parliament.uk/documents/c...-Gibraltar.pdf

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so Spain is going to find out what it is like to be hit by a wet lettuce ? ?

sorry, no faith in Hague - any backbone he had was knocked out of him by Labour's Bliar when they called him racist at the 2001 General Election, didnt know how to react to it and hasnt been the same since.

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Re: Conflict of interest
 

The wet lettuce failed.

A Spanish warship made a two-hour incursion into Gibraltar waters on Monday evening, in a defiant response to Britain’s warnings to stay away.

http://www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=27157

Re: Conflict of interest
 

Fred you probably thought I was being unkind about Hague,
The problem is that the RN boats can only harry the intruder, they have no positive instructions and rules of engagement. The Spanish know how long it takes for the information to get passed on and for the Ambassador to the Court of St James to be called and for him to arrive - so he can say that it was an error or some other twaddle, but the ship has now returned to Spanish waters.

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Are we in a new Budget Spending Round at the Gobierno ? ?

Seems the Spanish Navy are keeping themselves in the National Press at the moment, this incident has had heavy reporting

http://www.europapress.es/andalucia/...207155157.html

(Spanish only)

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Domino interfering with a vessel in International Waters sounds very much like piracy to me.

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depends on where you want to draw the line, and based on Gibraltar experiences over the past year (and longer) it would appear that the new IVA increase on stationery has left the Spanish without the ability to actually draw that line. Surely the harrassment of vessels in Gib waters by Spanish ships is just another indication of their pirate mentality.

ISTR there is bad blood about similar incidents vis a vis the american company and Spain over their wreck searching off Trafalgar and similar sites over a number of years.

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Nuestra Señora de las Mercedes was sunk off the coast of Portugal although Spain often quoted it as being in their waters and not Gibraltars.

However I am not aware of any laws that prevent searches for wrecks in International Waters which are measured by reference to the distance from the shore and not by the depth of water.

The arguments begin when establishing the ownership of any wreck / treasure etc. found. Sovereign vessels normally belong forever to their originating country. Merchant vessels belong to their owners or if an insurance company has paid out then they become the property of the insurance company who my sell them on to someone else.

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What is the reason for holding on to Gibraltar ? I can see no valid strategic interest. You may not have noticed but the Empire went some time ago - and so did the Merchant Navy !

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Are you sure????????????

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so you have a little plot of grass on the side of your house, never gets used, youd don't seem interested in it so I will have it. Lets close Rosyth because the Grand Fleet haven't used it much since the Jutland debacle in 1916 - ooopps can't do that, so many "loyal Scots" will lose their jobs.

in case you didn't get the email/memo the Empire has been modernised to become The Commonwealth of Nations, normally referred to as the Commonwealth and formerly known as the British Commonwealth, is an intergovernmental organisation of 54 independent member states.

The Merchant Navy is the maritime register of the United Kingdom, and describes the seagoing commercial interests of UK-registered ships and their crews. Merchant Navy vessels fly the Red Ensign and are regulated by the Maritime and Coastguard Agency (MCA). King George V bestowed the title of "Merchant Navy" on the British merchant shipping fleets following their service in the First World War.
Whilst it is much smaller than it used to be this is because companies have changed hands, been bought up by foreign interests and their ships are now registered in places that don't even have a shoreline, letalone a port. However, that doesn't mean the expertise of British Merchant Officers isnt recognised the world over.
Just remember that similarly British Steel is now owned by TATA, an Indian company, but you aren't shouting about that.

Gibraltar as an international port will fuel, water and feed any nationality of vessel that calls in - for a fee, especially as its importance to the Royal Navy is much less. But that doesn't diminish its importance to NATO and the US Navy in ensuring a busy channel is kept open.

Hope you find this little bit of maritime history of use and perhaps when you have visited Gib a few times you will come to understand its importance.

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Daily Mail has picked up the story now.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-The-Rock.html

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Where do they get their photos from?

The first one is positively ancient, and I've no idea where the second one was taken

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Let me know when the war between Spain and the UK starts so i can move..

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I would move now

They've just been round and given me a rifle and told me I'm in the Home Guard. ;)

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Pity old Jonesie has just passed on.
I dare say he would have cleared them all out single handed.
When it comes to the crunch they just don't like it up em. :eek:

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In the Home Guard ?

I thought you were The Home Guard

:rofl:

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Hague needs to hang on to Gibraltar because he promised all UK expats in Spain he would arrange for us to be rescued through there when the euro collapses and we are all destitute. :thumbsup:

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I am ;)

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I'm not so sure now that the Euro will collapse.
However be prepared to see

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...AMERKEL002.jpg

On the front of all €notes and coins

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Rose the Gullible ??

how can all those expats in the North get down to Gib thru the mayhem and murder ? ?
Gib is only useful for those within short distances of the port, look at the problems there were when the airlines were grounded by volcanic ash and multiply by 100 or more

Do you have your sailing bag under the bed ready? Remember, only 2 changes of personal clothing, small towel and washing bag. No personal items, jewellery, no pets, animals etc.

Wonder where they expect to hire all the boats from - any ideas ?

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So you think it will happen then?

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From the French of course.

That reminds me, whatever happened to our old pal HBG, who had us all heading to the evacuation ports every Saturday evening ?

I seem to recall he was a tad miffed when he found out that the Ark Royal wouldn't be waiting to take him back to Blighty and he'd probably have to rely on the French Navy instead. :(