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Communities and the Horizontal Property Law

Communities and the Horizontal Property Law

Old Mar 7th 2010, 4:12 pm
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Default Communities and the Horizontal Property Law

The Horizontal Property Law (La Ley de la Propiedad Horizontal) has been mentioned often on the forum. I saw this translation, and would like to know if it is a correct translation of the law, and is it up to date?

http://www.icamalaga.org/funcio/lega.../lphingles.htm

Another interesting link is:

http://www.eurosur.org/CONSUVEC/cont.../comunidad.htm

Point #9 in particular:
¿Y qué sucede si a pesar de no estar el piso al corriente del pago de las cuotas lo compro? (Loosely translates as "What happens if I buy the flat which has outstanding debts to the community?")
Answer: Establece la ley que el comprador de la vivienda responde de las cantidades adeudadas a la Comunidad de Propietarios para el sostenimiento de los gastos generales por los anteriores titulares, pero en este caso la responsabilidad sólo alcanza a la anualidad corriente en el momento de la compra y a la anterior. Más allá el comprador no es responsable. Google translates the highlighted red print as: "but in this case liability only extends to the current annuity at the time of purchase and the previous one."

Can this be correct?

Lastly, I read this recently updated article:
http://britishexpats.com/articles/sp...eveloper-bust/
Don't let the title put you off, because I think the interesting bit is half way through it:
"Alternatively, another potentially interesting scenario is starting to emerge – and we are seeking detailed legal advice on this point as I write."

All open to discussion.
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Old Mar 8th 2010, 4:07 pm
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Default Re: Communities and the Horizontal Property Law

Originally Posted by Carol&John
The Horizontal Property Law (La Ley de la Propiedad Horizontal) has been mentioned often on the forum. I saw this translation, and would like to know if it is a correct translation of the law, and is it up to date?

http://www.icamalaga.org/funcio/lega.../lphingles.htm

Another interesting link is:

http://www.eurosur.org/CONSUVEC/cont.../comunidad.htm

Point #9 in particular:
¿Y qué sucede si a pesar de no estar el piso al corriente del pago de las cuotas lo compro? (Loosely translates as "What happens if I buy the flat which has outstanding debts to the community?")
Answer: Establece la ley que el comprador de la vivienda responde de las cantidades adeudadas a la Comunidad de Propietarios para el sostenimiento de los gastos generales por los anteriores titulares, pero en este caso la responsabilidad sólo alcanza a la anualidad corriente en el momento de la compra y a la anterior. Más allá el comprador no es responsable. Google translates the highlighted red print as: "but in this case liability only extends to the current annuity at the time of purchase and the previous one."

Can this be correct?

Lastly, I read this recently updated article:
http://britishexpats.com/articles/sp...eveloper-bust/
Don't let the title put you off, because I think the interesting bit is half way through it:
"Alternatively, another potentially interesting scenario is starting to emerge – and we are seeking detailed legal advice on this point as I write."

All open to discussion.
Hi Carol,

The translation of Ley de Propiedad Horizontal is good, although I have not read the entire translation.

Regarding the question Point # 9, the answer is correct (I think that the translator too). http://www.eurosur.org/CONSUVEC/cont.../comunidad.htm

Specifically, you can find the answer in the LPH Articles 9.1 e) and 9.1 i).

In practice, as the art. 9.1. e), the seller included in the deed of sale a certificate issued by the Administrator that indicates whether the debt is community property.

I think your article is very interesting. http://britishexpats.com/articles/sp...eveloper-bust/

...

ART. 9.1. e) “El adquirente de una vivienda o local en régimen de propiedad horizontal, incluso con título inscrito en el Registro de la Propiedad, responde con el propio inmueble adquirido de las cantidades adeudadas a la comunidad de propietarios para el sostenimiento de los gastos generales por los anteriores titulares hasta el límite de los que resulten imputables a la parte vencida de la anualidad en la cual tenga lugar la adquisición y al año natural inmediatamente anterior. El piso o local estará legalmente afecto al cumplimiento de esta obligación.

En el instrumento público mediante el que se transmita, por cualquier título, la vivienda o local el transmitente deberá declarar hallarse al corriente en el pago de los gastos generales de la comunidad de propietarios o expresar los que adeude. El transmitente deberá aportar en este momento certificación sobre el estado de deudas con la comunidad coincidente con su declaración, sin la cual no podrá autorizarse el otorgamiento del documento público, salvo que fuese expresamente exonerado de esta obligación por el adquirente. La certificación será emitida en el plazo máximo de siete días naturales desde su solicitud por quien ejerza las funciones de Secretario, con el visto bueno del Presidente, quienes responderán, en caso de culpa o negligencia, de la exactitud de los datos consignados en la misma y de los perjuicios causados por el retraso en su emisión.”

ART. 9.1. i) "Comunicar a quien ejerza las funciones de Secretario de la comunidad, por cualquier medio que permita tener constancia de su recepción, el cambio de titularidad de la vivienda o local.
Quien incumpliere esta obligación seguirá respondiendo de las deudas con la comunidad devengadas con posterioridad a la transmisión de forma solidaria con el nuevo titular, sin perjuicio del derecho de aquél a repetir sobre éste.
Lo dispuesto en el párrafo anterior no será de aplicación cuando cualesquiera de los órganos de gobierno establecidos en el artículo 13 haya tenido conocimiento del cambio de titularidad de la vivienda o local por cualquier otro medio o por actos concluyentes del nuevo propietario, o bien cuando dicha transmisión resulte notoria."

...
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Old Mar 8th 2010, 7:27 pm
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Default Re: Communities and the Horizontal Property Law

Thanks S_L.
It made me wonder about the collection of MF's post administrative debts. Is not the bank now responsible to pay the community these post administrative debts (ie. 18 months' worth) if the property has been handed over to them? Has the bank taken on the debt too?
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Old Mar 8th 2010, 8:07 pm
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Default Re: Communities and the Horizontal Property Law

Originally Posted by Carol&John
Thanks S_L.
It made me wonder about the collection of MF's post administrative debts. Is not the bank now responsible to pay the community these post administrative debts (ie. 18 months' worth) if the property has been handed over to them? Has the bank taken on the debt too?
Yes, once they have acquired the property the new buyer (in this case the bank) is responsible for paying the community. As for past debt, they are also responsible for the debts of the past year. But I know there are communities have won judgments in MF debt claim. These sentences should be executed.
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Old Mar 9th 2010, 5:51 pm
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Default Re: Communities and the Horizontal Property Law

Thanks again S_L.
On a tangent here:
http://www.huelvainformacion.es/arti...anela.html#opi

Is CE next?
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Old Mar 9th 2010, 6:05 pm
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Smile Re: Communities and the Horizontal Property Law

Originally Posted by Carol&John
Thanks again S_L.
On a tangent here:
http://www.huelvainformacion.es/arti...anela.html#opi

Is CE next?
Are you aware Carol that in the past say 2003-6 there have been almost annual challenges against the legality of CE based on the Enviromental Impact study being correct/comprehensive/sufficient to meet EU legislation. These have all failed so far. The challenge is based on the fact that the former Mayor accepted a series of smaller individual studies instead of commissioning one comprehensive overall study.

This is something I have been involved with in UK in the past and I have to say in the UK application of the relevent rules the greens would have had a case!

The last Mayor seems to have sailed close to the wind on many things but I think Canela may have been even before his time so who gets it in the neck for that one who knows.
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Old Mar 9th 2010, 8:15 pm
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Default Re: Communities and the Horizontal Property Law

Originally Posted by Carol&John
Thanks again S_L.
On a tangent here:
http://www.huelvainformacion.es/arti...anela.html#opi

Is CE next?
Originally Posted by John & Kath
Are you aware Carol that in the past say 2003-6 there have been almost annual challenges against the legality of CE based on the Enviromental Impact study being correct/comprehensive/sufficient to meet EU legislation. These have all failed so far. The challenge is based on the fact that the former Mayor accepted a series of smaller individual studies instead of commissioning one comprehensive overall study.

This is something I have been involved with in UK in the past and I have to say in the UK application of the relevent rules the greens would have had a case!

The last Mayor seems to have sailed close to the wind on many things but I think Canela may have been even before his time so who gets it in the neck for that one who knows.
How interesting...

Let me tell you what happened in IC, which is being investigated by the Fiscalía.
In Ayamonte there is a Plan General de Ordenación Urbana (PGOU) that in Isla Canela destined to green areas 148,214 meters. Well, the last mayor, and his administration, through a Estudio de detalle (detail study) changed the classification of that area and moved from a green area to residential.

A Estudio de detalle is a tool of urban planning to supplement or adapt determinations established in Planes Generales and Parciales, NEVER be changed. Article 26 LOUA expressly states that the Estudio de detalle can not alter the development of urban land use, beyond the limits of the previous section, nor increase the urban use.

Why Estudio de detalle was use to change the Plan General if it could not?. Very simple, the estudio de detalle are only handled at the municipal level, not autonomic (Junta de Andalucía). The result: in these 148,214 meters there is not an inch of greenery but it exists beautiful buildings around it.

Who was responsible?. Here there are many responsible. Firstly, the last mayor and his administration and city officials (technical and lawyers). Responsibility could also reach the current government. Why?. Very simple. The previous government gave the developer the municipal work license, but the current mayor and his team, has granted the license of first occupation.

This may be a case for the news. However, work must be left wing Prosecution (Fiscalía).

Thank you very much Carol. You always offer us interesting news.

John & Kath, I also have questions and doubts about the environmental impact studio (Estudio de Impacto Ambiental) CE. Some time ago I asked about it directly, and I had not a very clear answer.

Last edited by spanish_lawyer; Mar 9th 2010 at 8:20 pm.
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