amideislas

My understanding is that an "unfurnished" property is automatically considered "vivenda" which seems to explain why most properties are offered only on furnished basis (even though they'll remove the furnishings when you want - its still "furnished" )

Porth

Thanks for that. We are truly searching for a property to rent for upwards of a year and unfurnished. We wish to do our research as to Spain being for us before we buy.

You would not believe the lack of service from some agents!

Coming over next week and have but three to view.

I must be the case that more money is made from selling so why bother with 'rental'

best wishes

amideislas

Well you don't have to do anything or have any special qualifications to be an "estate agent", most anybody here is...

...and unlike in say, the UK, properties here aren't priced on a sensible market basis, but all too oft just an arbitrary number dreamed up by the seller, which means that for most "estate agents", showing a property that you know will never sell is a waste of time. So they can be rather unenthusiastic...

Porth

now better understand so it is finger in the air? So if one needs a mortgage (and we do not) what are the comparables the banks take into account for value/mortgage purposes?

So feet on ground next week and some visits I think

thanks once more

amideislas

Banks use fair market value as a lending guide. Obviously that often doesn't suit sellers living in a dream world. But the sellers are the ones who end up having the property on the market for years before wondering if their price is too high.

lynnxa

it has nothing to do with being furnished or unfurnished - it depends on the contract

mine is furnished - but I have a proper vivienda contract

amideislas

That's the opposite of what I said.

AFAIK, if you tent it unfurnished, it's automatically considered long term vivenda, and subject to all theusual restrictions In other words unless they're 2 months delinquent its very difficult to get them out.

lynnxa

not under the new rules from last June 2013..........

Porth

Hi and thanks once more. I know next to nothing about Spanish law but I guarantee you by cob on Wednesday I will know more. Indeed I will report back with my experiences.

All I want is to find somewhere to live for a little time before we decide whether to buy or not in Spain. Pay the rental monthly or indeed and to complicate it and to make the owner think I will pay the whole of the period up front providing of course nice side contract with the owner and drawn up by the nice Abogado in Javea is in place.

The chances of that happening are zero. Why is it please that Spain has lots to commend itself but when you deal with agents and the like it becomes difficult uncertain and you really do think that there is a sting somewhere and you are the one going to get stung.

France is relatively straight forward and you have protection of three years unless the owner can prove that he needs it.

However France and Spain have one thing in common say one pays two months rent by way of a security deposit whose bank account does it go into please. What chance is there of ever getting it back? Indeed on the street in Javea last year and even from an Abogado the advice was to withhold the last two months rent. How can you work in such an environment?

In the UK all deposits are protected by law and go to defined and approved organisations and at the end when the house is left in the same condition as one finds it the money comes back by BACS and within days.

My wife really wants to give Spain a 'go' I have grave misgivings over the whole thing and the thought of perhaps an alleged unscrupulous owner having say 4000 euros of your money?

For balance and in the alternative perhaps everything will be wonderful?

However as I grow older and cannot get much older than I am I am risk averse and am very uncomfortable with the whole thing. I can see it now from members on this site

'don't do it then!'

That perhaps is the way forward

Will report back.

amideislas

There's no shortage of shock expressed by naive northerners who didn't expect their "deposit" to be a "gift". But around here, it's simply "key money". What? kept aside in an escrow account? What for?

Many around here ask for as much as 6 mos. "deposit" (which is absurd). Negotiate it as low as possible, because you really aren't likely to ever see it again. Just write it off immediately as a "cost".

It's just how it's done, and part of the "charm".

Porth

I was rapidly reaching that decision. Last year cost us let us say substantial amounts which were written off.

amideislas

If that's true, it's actually a good thing. Although one of our friends is still having serious difficulty evicting a tenant that has all but destroyed their property, simply because they aren't delinquent with the rent.

Porth

Thanks to everyone. I have a sense of foreboding about all of this. All I want is a trouble free relationship with an owner (similar to the ones we enjoy with our tenants in the UK) pay my bills enjoy ourselves and relax for a while.

We are informed by a credit reference agency in the UK we are excellent credit guys and with impeccable references. Their views!

You will not believe the difficulty we are going through in obtaining viewings alone anything else.

Perhaps it is a Latin thing. I am beginning to lose the will and now just view our time in Spain as simply a holiday.

Finally someone was so very kind as to send me a pm yesterday. Sorry but I cannot open it - any ideas please as to why. Is it possible please to re-send it.

best wishes

amideislas

Look, it's just a different set of rules that you have to get used to. If you can manage to see past those things (and not be naive) they no longer will "see you coming".

Tips:

• Negotiate the lowest deposit possible. It's a "gift", not a returnable. Be pleasantly surprised if you actually get it back.
• Owners tend to view maintenance as the tenant's responsibility. If the boiler breaks down, they will likely resist paying for it, and getting them to do so will be difficult and likely result in an adversarial relationship for the remainder of the your tenancy. If it's major, such as a roof collapse, it will be worth taking it to court. Otherwise, hardly worth it.
• Anything you invest for your own comfort (painting, lighting, cupboards, etc. ) if "permanently attached" will automatically become property of the owner - even when the owner agrees to it.

If you set your expectations appropriately, you can live quite happily here. But don't come here expecting everything to be like it is in England (or Germany or wherever you come from). It's not.

Porth

Wales indeed but after upwards of 30 years collectively in France. M le President as in Hollande has somewhat demanding notions as to the tax that one pays. Also inheritance is a problem in France if as is the case with me no children and I am the last one standing my brothers pay 60% tax on the value of my estate. It is payable on a personal level not by the estate. My wife has children from a previous marriage and my wish would be that they benefit from the estate. So went sometimes to bed at night hoping it would be me that went! Strange concept. Hence now resident in the UK so can buy holidays either in Spain or France so maybe just stay in the UK? Another question another dialogue for another time.