child benefit

Old Mar 20th 2007, 12:04 pm
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Default child benefit

hi everyone

was wondering if someone could help me.

i and looking at going to spain with my partner next year to live. we are a young couple looking to start a family. I am very lucky to work for an airline so could commute every week i hope.

As i would be still working in the uk could i claim child benefits? would junior need to be born in britain? My partner is slovakian so do i have to claim in my name and does this effect my state pension if there is one in the future?

maybe i should ring the benefits office but thought someone else might be able to help me here?

thank you
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Old Mar 20th 2007, 12:07 pm
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Default Re: child benefit

Don't really know how it works, but for me as I wont be living in britain i shant be claiming any benefits, the only benefit we get at the mo is child benefit and i'll be telling them we're no longer living in the UK, its only £17 a week so it isnt an amount that is gonna make a difference to lifestyle at all lol
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Old Mar 20th 2007, 6:53 pm
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Default Re: child benefit

Originally Posted by jonesa80 View Post
hi everyone

was wondering if someone could help me.

i and looking at going to spain with my partner next year to live. we are a young couple looking to start a family. I am very lucky to work for an airline so could commute every week i hope.

As i would be still working in the uk could i claim child benefits? would junior need to be born in britain? My partner is slovakian so do i have to claim in my name and does this effect my state pension if there is one in the future?

maybe i should ring the benefits office but thought someone else might be able to help me here?

thank you
Well it seems logical to me that if you are living in Spain and therefore a Spanish Tax resident then you will not be able to claim child benefit in another country. Much in the same way that you will not benefit from the National Health Service in the UK any more.
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Old Mar 20th 2007, 10:12 pm
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Default Re: child benefit

Originally Posted by Mitzyboy View Post
Well it seems logical to me that if you are living in Spain and therefore a Spanish Tax resident then you will not be able to claim child benefit in another country. Much in the same way that you will not benefit from the National Health Service in the UK any more.
the thing i hope to live in spain but work in the uk paying my taxes in the uk.
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Old Mar 20th 2007, 11:26 pm
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Default Re: child benefit

Originally Posted by jonesa80 View Post
the thing i hope to live in spain but work in the uk paying my taxes in the uk.
I think it may be worthwhile doing some more research. After you have been here for 6 months you will become a Spanish tax resident and your taxes will be payable here in Spain. That being so, you will not legally be able to claim for child benefit for a child not living in the UK.

In Spain you will be liable for income tax at the prevailing rate, local taxes on your home, and of course Spanish wealth tax on your worldwide assets, irrespective of if those assets are in the UK or in Spain.

With a few exceptions, you can't reside in Spain and expect to claim UK benefits.
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Old Mar 21st 2007, 1:22 am
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Default Re: child benefit

Originally Posted by Mitzyboy View Post
After you have been here for 6 months you will become a Spanish tax resident and your taxes will be payable here in Spain.
But what if you don't take up residency, spend more than 6 months of the year in Spain, and keep a UK address??
Who keeps a check on how long you spend here??
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Old Mar 21st 2007, 4:47 pm
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Default Re: child benefit

Originally Posted by big wheels View Post
But what if you don't take up residency, spend more than 6 months of the year in Spain, and keep a UK address??
Who keeps a check on how long you spend here??
Isn't that called Fraud??
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Old Mar 21st 2007, 6:32 pm
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Default Re: child benefit

Originally Posted by big wheels View Post
But what if you don't take up residency, spend more than 6 months of the year in Spain, and keep a UK address??
Who keeps a check on how long you spend here??
Yes very good. That would be called benefit fraud then, and one would hope that whoever tried to do it would pay the price eventually.

I was talking to my gestoria earlier and he was telling me how much the Spanish dislike the number of english who come over here and live "secretly" rather than registering and doing everything properly.
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Old Mar 21st 2007, 7:34 pm
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Default Re: child benefit

Originally Posted by dazzle View Post
Isn't that called Fraud??
I do believe it is and I feel very strongly about it.
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Old Mar 21st 2007, 8:05 pm
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Default Re: child benefit

Originally Posted by Mitzyboy View Post
I was talking to my gestoria earlier and he was telling me how much the Spanish dislike the number of english who come over here and live "secretly" rather than registering and doing everything properly.

just as thousands of Brits complain about immigrants here in the UK. In fact don't many ExPats state it as one of the reasons they left the UK in the first place!
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Old Mar 21st 2007, 8:11 pm
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Default Re: child benefit

Originally Posted by jonesa80 View Post
the thing i hope to live in spain but work in the uk paying my taxes in the uk.
So where's the fraud??

You can't be taxed twice.


We have lived on average for 9-10 months of the year in Spain for the past four years.
Neither myself or my wife are of pensionable age, working, or claiming any benefit of any kind here or UK.
Our income is provided by investments held in the Uk and is paid tax free.
We are registered at the town hall in Spain, and pay all our local taxes IBI, car tax etc.
However because we still have our Uk house we will not be applying for residency, as I would then have to pay income tax in Spain
As for the 183 day rule.. I repeat. Who is checking up on everyone??

Last edited by big wheels; Mar 21st 2007 at 8:51 pm.
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Old Mar 21st 2007, 11:30 pm
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Default Re: child benefit

Originally Posted by big wheels View Post
So where's the fraud??

You can't be taxed twice.


We have lived on average for 9-10 months of the year in Spain for the past four years.
Neither myself or my wife are of pensionable age, working, or claiming any benefit of any kind here or UK.
Our income is provided by investments held in the Uk and is paid tax free.
We are registered at the town hall in Spain, and pay all our local taxes IBI, car tax etc.
However because we still have our Uk house we will not be applying for residency, as I would then have to pay income tax in Spain
As for the 183 day rule.. I repeat. Who is checking up on everyone??

So you've told the UK tax man that you pay income tax in Spain to get zero rated there, but you don't pay income tax in Spain so you are evading tax. You don't see the problem there?

I don't want to get into an arguement on here with you man, but it seems fairly clear to me

If the tax man in Spain ever catches up with you, there could be heavy fines depending on your circumstances.
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Old Mar 22nd 2007, 12:19 am
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Default Re: child benefit

[QUOTE=Mitzyboy;4544092]So you've told the UK tax man that you pay income tax in Spain to get zero rated there;[/QUOTE

No. Not at all. I have told the Uk tax man no such thing. The Uk tax man is well aware of our financial position and can't touch any of our income.
Thanks to some excellent advice over the last 15-20 years from my financial advisor it all comes from Uk based distributon funds, peps, and other investments that allow a tax free % to be taken each month.
Therefore all our income comes tax free. Provided of course that we have a Uk address.
There is a difference between Evading and Avoiding tax.
I do agree with you however that if someone somewhere in Spanish immigration control should happen to start keeping a check on our movements, then there could be a problem with the Spanish tax office. But I doubt it will ever happen, and we will cross that bridge if, and when we need to.
Maybe sell the house in the UK? I'm sure the savings in council tax will cover any fine.

Last edited by big wheels; Mar 22nd 2007 at 12:32 am.
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Old Mar 22nd 2007, 12:57 am
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Default Re: child benefit

Originally Posted by big wheels View Post
There is a difference between Evading and Avoiding tax.
...no there isn't according to HMRC and Gordon Brown. In fact there are several rules regarding so-called "tax avoidance schemes". Getting a tax free income from a PEP or a Pension is being "tax efficient".

Originally Posted by big wheels View Post
I do agree with you however that if someone somewhere in Spanish immigration control should happen to start keeping a check on our movements, then there could be a problem with the Spanish tax office. But I doubt it will ever happen, and we will cross that bridge if, and when we need to.
Crossing that bridge could be harder than you think. Tax authorities do share information, especially with the third MLR / other directives advertised as a means of combating the funding mechanisms for terrorism and serious crime, it's actually a brilliant wheeze for governments to crack down on tax evasion / avoidance as well.

One recent case reported widely was where HMRC queried the "true" tax residency of someone over a six year period and demanded:

• Arrival and departure dates to and from the UK, the purpose of each visit, and accommodation address.
• Confirmation of registration with an overseas tax authority plus all copies of assessments and returns, correspondence received from or sent to the overseas tax authority, and a copy of any residence permit issued by any overseas country.
• In respect of property overseas, a description of the property supplemented with photographs and including a detailed description of the living accommodation; date of purchase, cost of property, together with mortgage details.
• For all property in the UK and overseas, a copy of utility bills; itemised phone bills; buildings and contents insurance policies and copies of the schedules for the year ended April 5, 2005; property/council tax bills.
• A schedule of all bank, building society and credit cards operated by you in the year ended April 5, 2005 with copies of statements.
• A schedule detailing all road vehicles available for your use showing make, model, place of registration and the name of the authorised users of each vehicle with a copy of the relevant certificates of insurance and schedules for the year ended April 5, 2005.
• A brief narrative detailing your social interest and hobbies in the UK, together with any documentation relating to any membership of clubs, etc.
• Copy of your passport.

Clearly, these things are a hassle to pull together if you've been playing fair - a bloody nightmare if you haven't!!

By the way - regulated businesses that you may deal with are also tied by the MLR too. If your financial adviser / accountant / solicitor ever suspects that your intentions are not entirely honerable, they can end up in prison themselves if they (a) don't immediately report you or (b) attempt in any way to notify you that you are being reported.
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Old Mar 22nd 2007, 1:09 am
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Default Re: child benefit

Originally Posted by twyntub View Post
...By the way - regulated businesses that you may deal with are also tied by the MLR too. If your financial adviser / accountant / solicitor ever suspects that your intentions are not entirely honerable, they can end up in prison themselves if they (a) don't immediately report you or (b) attempt in any way to notify you that you are being reported.
Funny how all three are aware of our situation and two of them actually suggested this route. I think if they had any thoughts of ending up in prison, they would have said so years ago.
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