Chiclana

Old Apr 27th 2007, 11:51 am
  #16  
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Default Re: Chiclana

I think there is a great danger in tarring all of Chiclana with the same brush. It covers a huge area and whereas there are problems with illegal builds in some of the outlying campo areas such as Pago, the vast majority of houses are perfectly legal, pay their rates and have normal metres and electricity. Personally, I know of nobody who does not have electricity though I have lived there for three years, except in this forum. Most I suspect bought holiday houses to make money rather than to live here. I feel very sorry for those that have been duped by estate agents, but I do remember in my first year meeting lots of people who boasted about not paying anything for electricity/ rubbish/water/council rates/sewage etc. and who thought I myself had been duped because to quote one of them, " No one pays for that sort of thing in Chiclana, it´s the outback,´real Spain´..."
Now though, people trying to sell perfectly legal houses, are having difficulty because of Chiclana´s "bad" name. I would advise buying here actually as legal houses WITH metres are good value right now with prices down.
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Old Apr 27th 2007, 12:53 pm
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Default Re: Chiclana

All very emotive !! The legality argument will run and run. Even parts of Barossa, which albeit legal, were only urbanised about two years ago. The roads behind Mangita (?), the fish restaurant. If one is talking about the urbanisations at Novo Sancti Petri then one may be ok, but anywhere else probably falls into the grey area of not illegal, but not quite legal. Although there are some builders who seem to be flouting the land division and other regulations.
There are many who are without electricity. Some are paying the cost for upgrading their suplies and having new cables and poles installed. Around 3-5000 Eu. There about ten houses in my part of Upper Pago. All new poles and cables, but still waiting to go 'live'. I know someone in Los Gallos who has just obtained a meter and elex after eighteen months.
Chiclana is not for the fainthearted. Thankfully there are still parts where people only speak Spanish, where the Levante blows, and it retains it's Spanish charm. Why oh why do we need an English butcher??
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Old Apr 27th 2007, 12:58 pm
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Default Re: Chiclana

Originally Posted by poollounger View Post
All very emotive !! The legality argument will run and run. Even parts of Barossa, which albeit legal, were only urbanised about two years ago. The roads behind Mangita (?), the fish restaurant. If one is talking about the urbanisations at Novo Sancti Petri then one may be ok, but anywhere else probably falls into the grey area of not illegal, but not quite legal. Although there are some builders who seem to be flouting the land division and other regulations.
There are many who are without electricity. Some are paying the cost for upgrading their suplies and having new cables and poles installed. Around 3-5000 Eu. There about ten houses in my part of Upper Pago. All new poles and cables, but still waiting to go 'live'. I know someone in Los Gallos who has just obtained a meter and elex after eighteen months.
Chiclana is not for the fainthearted. Thankfully there are still parts where people only speak Spanish, where the Levante blows, and it retains it's Spanish charm. Why oh why do we need an English butcher??
So as the Spanish can try it,(English butcher),nice to hear from you.
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Old Apr 27th 2007, 1:13 pm
  #19  
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Default Re: Chiclana

Everybody is entitled to their opinion on this forum whether positive or negative. There is nothing wrong with having an English butcher either for those cuts which are hard to get at the Spanish butchers. Live and let live I say.
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Old Apr 27th 2007, 1:47 pm
  #20  
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Originally Posted by Lis48 View Post
I think there is a great danger in tarring all of Chiclana with the same brush. It covers a huge area and whereas there are problems with illegal builds in some of the outlying campo areas such as Pago, the vast majority of houses are perfectly legal, pay their rates and have normal metres and electricity. Personally, I know of nobody who does not have electricity though I have lived there for three years, except in this forum. Most I suspect bought holiday houses to make money rather than to live here. I feel very sorry for those that have been duped by estate agents, but I do remember in my first year meeting lots of people who boasted about not paying anything for electricity/ rubbish/water/council rates/sewage etc. and who thought I myself had been duped because to quote one of them, " No one pays for that sort of thing in Chiclana, it´s the outback,´real Spain´..."
Now though, people trying to sell perfectly legal houses, are having difficulty because of Chiclana´s "bad" name. I would advise buying here actually as legal houses WITH metres are good value right now with prices down.
Lisa 48 I accept what you are saying, but I have an electricity meter, and pay for it. I pay my bills to Chiclana Natural to take the rubbish away and pay all the other bills.What I was attempting to say was that there are so many crooks here in Chiclana,in the Estate Agencies, with Lawyers,Promoters,Builders etc that if you hav been fortunate enough NOT to have been a victim you are very lucky.Don't forget people like Mourinho wouldn't have believed anyone who berated Marbella but now look at it?
 
Old Apr 27th 2007, 2:09 pm
  #21  
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Originally Posted by Mourinho View Post
Who are you to tell people NOT to buy in Chiclana ? , if you do your homework , check things out and not arrive on a short viewing trip and buy straight away you might not fall in to the traps the unscrupulous officials have waiting for those carried away on the fact they must have a house in spain to keep up with friends and neighbours .

Saying that i would also say DO NOT buy in Chiclana to all those nieve Brits looking for the latest must have , keep Chiclana Spanish !
Mourinho,obviously you find it difficult to read English so I will try to make it easy for you by listing the points I tried to make. 1) I said I wanted to ADVISE not TELL people not to buy in Chiclana 2) I did my homework long before I came here but was unfortunately conned by a Spanish Lawyer who deliberately lied to me 3) There is no recompense, I hope you understand that difficult word,against the Lawyer because Spain does NOT have a Law Society as in the UK or other sufficient body in existence to take action against him or denounce him. In theorey there is something similar but in practice it protects its own! 4) I never have tried to or believed in keeping up with the Jones' or wanted to have what my friend/neighbour has because it is a game you cannot win. There are many people in Chiclana from all countries, who have been sold properties with agricultural electricity supplies, promised meters, insufficient checks being done by their Spanish Lawyers and numerous other problems.I thought your reference to naive British was particularly nasty bordering these days on a racist comment.
 
Old Apr 27th 2007, 3:14 pm
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Default Re: Chiclana

Originally Posted by Muchacha View Post
I view this site regularly and this is my first post. I had promised myself that if I ever did post it would be positive. Apologies in advance but this post is rather negative, I too am a victim of the horrible situation in Chiclana relating the illegal builds and disconnection of electricity.

Many posters here seem to be of the opinion that illegal properties are only bought by naïve (at best) or greedy stupid people (at worst). I have lived in Chiclana for four years, prior to that I rented a property for 12 months in order to improve my language skills, understand the culture and understand how property buying works. My property was bought with an independent lawyer a fully translated contract and was signed and stamped by the Notario. It has since been inscribed and all taxes paid. None of this is enough to protect people from corrupt council officials or unscrupulous builders and estate agents.

My property has been re designated to White land (Agricultural), it was purchased on Yellow and the Escritura clearly states the land designation is Urbana (Yellow). I have been without electricity for over 18 months and there are no signs of mains power being restored anytime soon.

So I agree with both of the above posters. If you are English be very very careful if you intend to buy property in Chiclana (I am unable to comment on the rest of Spain because Chiclana is the only place I have ever bought a property). And I also agree to keep Chiclana Spanish. They don’t seem to have any concerns about illegal builds and it appears to be completely normal to them to build a house without permits and then steal electricity. There are no checks and balances in the Spanish house buying process which safeguard the purchaser, there is no recompense to any official or lawyer. The whole situation is a disgrace and those people who have not been affected by this should thank their lucky stars. Just as people who have been affected are not naïve or stupid, it is good luck - not good judgement which has resulted in some NOT being affected. Thank you – rant over!!

Hello Muchacha

Fristly l would like to welcome you to BE and say a bit WELCOME and secondly I would like to thank you for your post, what has happened to you is beyond comprehension to some people, through no fault of your own the unspeakable has happened and yes it is through the corrupt powers to be in this area.

From your one posting here I now know more about you and your sad situation, unlike the post that I answered above. I as are others in Chiclana am very concerned a bout the situation some people find themself in, and you have taken the time to share that with other like minded people.

I also agree with you that it is not because people are greedy, not doing research or buying blind, it is sadly that there are so many people (including Brits) that are only to earger to rip others off. I really do not know what to say to you about the council changing you from yellow to white land and my heart goes out to you, I really want to cry for you. For my part I am extremely lucky to not have these problems and I really do have my estate agent to thank for that, but even he slipped up because on the new plans it shows a road going straight through our property into green land. As I'm sure you now green land is never going to be any thing but green, so why do we need a road going into it. I have been told by the land registry that yes the road is there on the plans, and there is a park planned for the land behind our house but this Chiclana and it could never happen. The one thing I have found out is that by law councils have to pay compensation but these local councils do not tell you that and they will do everything in their power not to, I am assuming that you have been down this track. Once again, my heart goes out not only you but others in this situation.


I'm sure this will sound like taking coals to Newcastle but are there pressure groups in place, I see on TV that Tony Blaire is willing to back pressure groups but not individual cases within the EU. Once again my thoughts are for you and others in the same boat.
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Old Apr 27th 2007, 3:35 pm
  #23  
 
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Default Re: Chiclana

Originally Posted by poollounger View Post
All very emotive !! The legality argument will run and run. Even parts of Barossa, which albeit legal, were only urbanised about two years ago. The roads behind Mangita (?), the fish restaurant. If one is talking about the urbanisations at Novo Sancti Petri then one may be ok, but anywhere else probably falls into the grey area of not illegal, but not quite legal. Although there are some builders who seem to be flouting the land division and other regulations.
There are many who are without electricity. Some are paying the cost for upgrading their suplies and having new cables and poles installed. Around 3-5000 Eu. There about ten houses in my part of Upper Pago. All new poles and cables, but still waiting to go 'live'. I know someone in Los Gallos who has just obtained a meter and elex after eighteen months.
Chiclana is not for the fainthearted. Thankfully there are still parts where people only speak Spanish, where the Levante blows, and it retains it's Spanish charm. Why oh why do we need an English butcher??

Poollounger, if you do not want to use an English butcher then that is your choice, am I right when I say you live in England, where or if you work, it is at this moment in England, your property here in Chiclana is used for a holiday home. Giving up ones life in the UK and moving to Spain is not just for the retired few but also for younger people with families and these people need to work to earn money to keep there families. If someone has a trade that they used back in the UK then it stands to reason that they would like to use it here to EARN a living. OK so he is English and above his shop it says English Butcher does it matter, all his meat is from Spanish source the only difference is he hangs his meat for 3 weeks before he sells it, where a Spanish butcher would not. Included in what he sells he has what some would call English sausages, but for the main he is selling meat to earn a living. Give the man a break, it is like everything if you try it and you like it you will use it again, if you don't like then you won't use it again but please don't just say "he/it is English I am not going to use it".
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Old Apr 27th 2007, 7:14 pm
  #24  
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Default Re: Chiclana

Originally Posted by Chiclanero View Post
Mourinho,obviously you find it difficult to read English so I will try to make it easy for you by listing the points I tried to make. 1) I said I wanted to ADVISE not TELL people not to buy in Chiclana 2) I did my homework long before I came here but was unfortunately conned by a Spanish Lawyer who deliberately lied to me 3) There is no recompense, I hope you understand that difficult word,against the Lawyer because Spain does NOT have a Law Society as in the UK or other sufficient body in existence to take action against him or denounce him. In theorey there is something similar but in practice it protects its own! 4) I never have tried to or believed in keeping up with the Jones' or wanted to have what my friend/neighbour has because it is a game you cannot win. There are many people in Chiclana from all countries, who have been sold properties with agricultural electricity supplies, promised meters, insufficient checks being done by their Spanish Lawyers and numerous other problems.I thought your reference to naive British was particularly nasty bordering these days on a racist comment.

I bet my english is better than your spanish ! perhaps if you spoke the local lingo you wouldnt have been conned !
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Old Apr 27th 2007, 8:18 pm
  #25  
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Originally Posted by Mourinho View Post
I bet my english is better than your spanish ! perhaps if you spoke the local lingo you wouldnt have been conned !
Thats a little bit unfair, even if they could speak the lingo they srill would not have the knowledge of a solicitor.
As you fully well know if you dont know what you need to ask, they sure as hell wont tell you.
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Old Apr 27th 2007, 10:31 pm
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Originally Posted by Mourinho View Post
I bet my english is better than your spanish ! perhaps if you spoke the local lingo you wouldnt have been conned !
Easy,easy,lets not fight against each other,lets fight for each other,and dont please dont let others on the forum from other areas in Spain get involved,they cant help,we know we live in the real Spain,and will overcome.
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Old Apr 28th 2007, 9:44 am
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I do appreciate that there is a difference in holidaying in a place and living there permanently, and that resident expats may have cravings for those familar foods. I also realise that, certainly here in London we have many Greek, Italian, Asian etc shops, delis and butchers. I would also never deny anyone's right to personal enterprise in order to support themselves and their family. My concern is that this is the thin end of the wedge. I don't want to to see the beach bars at Barossa turning into Irish pubs showing Sky Sport, or the town being infiltrated by Marks and Spencer (unlikely but just an eg). Even the Florentina now has an English waitress. Fortunatelyy she is sweet and charming and efficient and young enough to be acquiring Spanish. Even before I achieved the limited Spanish I now have I made an effort to go out armed with a dictionary. I just dont want Chiclana to turn into another little Britain. I like it as it is and don't fancy moving to Extremadura !!
Is there is a good reason for butchers in Spain not hanging their meat for as long in that heat?? I think the meat in Spain on the whole is superb and better than that seved in the majority of British restaurants, unless one is paying an arm and a leg. Most of the budget meat served in chains of pubs etc is imported anyway..
Businesss ops.....hmmmmmm....
Perhaps an English caff...instant coffee...yummy. An English pub....warm ale in that heat and even warmer lager ? Maybe not. An English brothel ??
Might have to be all blondes to attract the senores, or would Englishmen want a bit of familiarity over the Spanish ladies??
Anyone for Bridge or a game of Mah Jong ??
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Old Apr 28th 2007, 10:46 am
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Mourinho View Post
I bet my english is better than your spanish ! perhaps if you spoke the local lingo you wouldnt have been conned !
Mourinho, I know who you are and where you are and you know me, so you know I do speak "the local lingo" quite well and understand it much more.Why adopt the name of Chelsea's Portuguese manager though? You can't be a fan of theirs surely? I'll come calling soon to "discuss" matters with you soon, though I can't say exactly when, morning,noon or night, because you sound so bitter and twisted? Now save your typing hand for better things, don't bother replying any more otherwise it's like a tennis ball going backwards and forwards over the net at Wimbledon? Now there's a good chap. Game over.
 
Old Apr 28th 2007, 12:05 pm
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Default Re: Chiclana

Originally Posted by poollounger View Post
I do appreciate that there is a difference in holidaying in a place and living there permanently, and that resident expats may have cravings for those familar foods. I also realise that, certainly here in London we have many Greek, Italian, Asian etc shops, delis and butchers. I would also never deny anyone's right to personal enterprise in order to support themselves and their family. My concern is that this is the thin end of the wedge. I don't want to to see the beach bars at Barossa turning into Irish pubs showing Sky Sport, or the town being infiltrated by Marks and Spencer (unlikely but just an eg). Even the Florentina now has an English waitress. Fortunatelyy she is sweet and charming and efficient and young enough to be acquiring Spanish. Even before I achieved the limited Spanish I now have I made an effort to go out armed with a dictionary. I just dont want Chiclana to turn into another little Britain. I like it as it is and don't fancy moving to Extremadura !!
Is there is a good reason for butchers in Spain not hanging their meat for as long in that heat?? I think the meat in Spain on the whole is superb and better than that seved in the majority of British restaurants, unless one is paying an arm and a leg. Most of the budget meat served in chains of pubs etc is imported anyway..
Businesss ops.....hmmmmmm....
Perhaps an English caff...instant coffee...yummy. An English pub....warm ale in that heat and even warmer lager ? Maybe not. An English brothel ??
Might have to be all blondes to attract the senores, or would Englishmen want a bit of familiarity over the Spanish ladies??
Anyone for Bridge or a game of Mah Jong ??

Hi Poollounger

The reasons I moved here to Chiclana was exactly the reasons you say, there were not many, in fact when we bought there were no British shops or bars, I think the first came in to existence a wee while after we arrived. The very fact that they did not exist was the charm and appeal of the place and if I am being truthful one of the reasons our house is up for sale, we now feel there are maybe too many ExPat arriving for our liking. As OH and I are very realistic we know that it is no good saying "we don't want anymore brits here, we don't want English people serving us in shops, we don't want yet another Indian restaurant because what ever our feelings are towards these people it is inevitable that Chicalna will go the way of the other Coats in years to come. Thankfully the Chiclanero/a is a very strong willed person and will hang out for a good few years yet. If people want to live real Spain and be away from hearing to much English spoken then living on a costa is not the place for it as there is to much money to be had with prime land locations, in land must be the way to go.

Your point of craving for familiar foods is a good one, when ever I came here for a few days at a time I loved the food, thought I would never want another Indian or Chinese, when my children are here they won't even entertain the thought of having these foods. Believe me if you like eating international cuisine it does get to the stage where you are thinking about it non-stop about your next curry, before when I went back to Blighty for a visit my whole itinerary revolved around how many different types of restaurants I could cram into my long weekend back.

I'm glad you enjoy your time here and that one day you may be settled in upper Pago for your retirement years, oh if that is what you are planning.
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Old Apr 28th 2007, 3:09 pm
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Default Re: Chiclana

Well looking at Chiclana and it's surrounds on Google Earth reveals vast tracts of undeveloped land. I think it could be a while before it becomes over developed, and I think the intrinsic problems of the region will never attract the Marbella, Denia, Costa de Sol crowd. I noticed that the English bookshop near Macdonalds disappeared. Then there is the Levante...and the Poniente. I know Spaniards who have moved away because of these winds.The now higher prices.. chatting to a guy on the flight back who was a builder doing renovation inland he said many were buying inland as they had been priced out of the coastal regions. Still on Mercer estate agents mailing lists I was intrigued by their developments at Medina de Sidonia, but wonder if people are really happy about living out there.
I suppose it is the age old quandary.. we want to holiday with the peasant on his donkey and a sleepy existence as an antidote to city living, he often wants a car and modern plumbing. I crave a varied existence, expats, locals, peasants, the bourgeousie. The sleepiness of Chiclana and the liveliness of Cadiz and Seville.
I love sitting on my patio and reading and gardening. It reminds me of my colonial childhood in India in the 50s/60s, long evenings devouring Somerset Maugham and Sexton Blake on the verandah. However, on my last visit there in the early 90's I was delighted to find a much more multicultural society than the little Britain I was raised in.
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