Catalan clout?
 

Did the town hall of Arenys de Munt 3 yrs ago start off a chain of events which today may take the next step toward Independence in Catalunya/Catalonia?

The turnout today is expected to beat any other election in recent history, the high fervour of the possibility of breaking away from Spain is felt in this area.
Have the Catalans seen the future for Spain and decided, enough is enough......If there is to be corruption, we want to be in charge of our own....?

Re: Catalan clout?
 

Good article in the Independent explaining the pros and cons:

Artur Mas’ nationalist gamble is risky business for Catalonia

If they go it alone they would have to reapply for EU membership - which Spain would veto.

Re: Catalan clout?
 

The Catalans have a record of corruption that is at least equal to that in the rest of Spain

El Pais is saying the turnout is at 58%, so not that high

The Catalans can go independent if they want to, I dont really care. But then I want an independent Asturias

!Puxa Asturies!

Re: Catalan clout?
 

The fact that the UK has agreed to Scotland having a free vote regarding independance is expected to cause the Spanish govt. huge embarrassment if they try to stand in the way of Catalan independance.

Re: Catalan clout?
 

...as though the necessity of EU membership would be a foregone conclusion?

Re: Catalan clout?
 

I see Mas didn't achieve quite the result he was looking for in the elections:-

http://www.diariosur.es/rc/20121125/...211260136.html

I wonder if this will be the end of it? Somehow I doubt it.

Re: Catalan clout?
 

As we live in Catalonia I have been watching this very closely and with great apprehension.
When we first came here the independence movement was pretty weak. We thought about learning Catalan but decided to learn spanish. I was arrogant enough to think that I would pick that up in a couple of years and maybe then learn Catalan :rofl::rofl::rofl: however apart from finding it far more difficult to learn spanish than expected, we found that most locals were quite happy to speak to us in spanish. Only a very few refused and then they just wanted to practice english.
Our neighbours assured us that the independence movement was supported by less than 50% of people. There are a lot of economic migrants from the rest of Spain who would not want the split.
The last few months have seen a noticeable difference. More hostility to us speaking spanish, catalan flags everywhere. The local Carrefour has changed all its signage from spanish to Catalan.
What worries us is that some retired generals have suggested using force if Catalonia insisted on a break up. Whispers of another civil war which maybe exaggerated but who knows? Catalonia is certainly a net contributor to the spanish economy and only receives back 35% of what she pays to Madrid. It is on the basis that they are so rich they think the EU will be pleased to have them as a member - a bit of an assumption and I don't understand why they would rather pay money to the EU than Madrid but there's a lot of emotion involved.
So yesterdays result is a huge relief but I don't think it will go away and we may have to consider getting out of here at some point.
This article is a very good summary: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/w...w/17369168.cms

Re: Catalan clout?
 

There are a lot of myths and misconceptions being sent around Catulunya

1. Catalunya get a lot more than 35% of what they pay to Madrid back. They do pay more than they get back but that is normal when the 2nd biggest city in Spain is in Catalunya. e.g. Londoners pay tons more in tax than what they get back
2. Two thirds of Catalunya's trade is with the rest of Spain. If they become independent and therefore outside of the EU (it would take years to get approval) then Spain could cease trading with Catalunya which would sink it like a ship

Catalans can become independent if they like, it really is up to them as we do live in a democracy, but it will be a long hard road and they will be worse off than they are now, at least for the first 10-20 years after independence

Re: Catalan clout?
 

Sounds a bit like Greece and Spain's future (in or out of the Eurozone).

Re: Catalan clout?
 

As R.R, says there has been a lot of economic migration to Catalunya from the rest of Spain and before that during Francos time for political purposes.

This is obviously telling its tale in voting terms.

Were it simply an election based on people of Catalan origin then little doubt the result would be overwhelmingly in favour of independance, but obviously that cannot happen, so it's quite likely there will be ever increasing political turmoil with Catalunya itself.

Re: Catalan clout?
 

Two things I disagree with here. 1) Londoners pay more in tax than they get back but thats off thread so lets not go there.
2) Catalans can become independent if they like. - Well no because Madrid has to agree to be bound by the results of any referendum they have and there are plenty of signs that they will not agree. Currently a referendum is illegal under the Spanish constitution

I do agree that the Catalans assumption that they will be immediately welcomed into the EU with open arms seems more than a little naive. Who knows if they bring plenty of money with them maybe the process could be fast-tracked? They certainly believe so. I wonder if they've had any talks with the EU.

Fortunately its now got much more complicated and will take much longer to sort out. Here's an interesting assortment of views :http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-20407873

Re: Catalan clout?
 

Perhaps the Catalans should take time out for holidays in Gibraltar to see what it is like to be ostricised.
:frown:

Re: Catalan clout?
 

Many of them don't need to. They still remember the civil war when they weren't allowed to speak their own language. :(

Sadly, as is often the case with those who have been oppressed, its not so easy to forget and move on. After all their are those in the UK who still hate Germany and the Spanish civil war was much more recent than WW2.

Re: Catalan clout?
 

???????:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Re: Catalan clout?
 

Yes sorry Fred - of course it wasn't. What I actually meant was Franco's rule when catalan was banned and not the actual war at all.